Transcript auto-generated by Apple Podcasts

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ROBONZO: This is The Unstarving Musician’s Podcast.

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ROBONZO: The podcast features conversation for musicians of all types and genres, a curation of expertise intended to help all musicians be better at marketing, business, the creative process, and all the other things that empower us to do more of what we love, make music.

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ROBONZO: Greetings, my fine feathered friends.

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ROBONZO: Wait, what?

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ROBONZO: It’s Robonzo.

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ROBONZO: This episode of The Unstarving Musician’s Podcast features a conversation with drummer, vocalist, podcaster, Mac expert, tech dude, and self-proclaimed nerd, Dave Hamilton.

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ROBONZO: I first met Dave as a guest on one of his podcasts, GigGab The Working Musician’s Podcast, episode 88, if you want to check it out, and you should.

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ROBONZO: Dave is a formerly trained musician, which garners a lot of points with me, but he’s a lot more.

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ROBONZO: Dave co-founded The Mac Observer, a site devoted to all things Apple and BackBeat Media, and online marketing, interactive business, to name a few.

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ROBONZO: He regularly gigs with two bands, works with a couple of theater companies, hosts the podcasts Mac Geek Gab and The Small Business Show, among others.

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ROBONZO: He’s a husband, a dad.

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ROBONZO: It must be exhausting.

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ROBONZO: We talk about a lot of this during our discussion, plus his appreciation for Rush, tips for learning music theory, and setting up a home recording studio, and a whole lot more.

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ROBONZO: And without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Super Dave Hamilton.

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ROBONZO: Dave Hamilton, welcome to the show.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Thanks for having me.

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DAVE HAMILTON: It’s great to be on here.

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ROBONZO: Absolutely.

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ROBONZO: I really appreciate you making a little time.

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ROBONZO: I know you had to shuffle it around a little bit, and I was like, uh-oh, but I know how that goes.

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ROBONZO: I’ll be honest with you and tell you, as a new podcaster, I’m still working on building that pipeline so I don’t have to feel panicked when, if something happens and someone has to cancel.

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ROBONZO: You know, I had already been thinking about, as some mentors and coaches have been telling me, do some solo shows, Sprinkle is in.

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ROBONZO: So I was already thinking about it.

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ROBONZO: So this was a good week for it.

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ROBONZO: But as it turns out, I had two interviews, yourself included, plus the solo show.

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ROBONZO: So now I’m a little ahead of the curve for once.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, I always hate when it happens that I need to reschedule.

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DAVE HAMILTON: I really try never to cancel, but even rescheduling, I know as a podcaster that that can be a very stressful thing when you’ve got plans and it’s like, oh crap, you know.

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DAVE HAMILTON: But yeah, you know, it’s just like gigs, right?

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DAVE HAMILTON: You never want to reschedule a gig because there’s always the risk that, man, if you become known as that person that’s unreliable, well, there’s an easy solution for other people for that and that’s don’t call him.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Exactly.

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ROBONZO: Exactly.

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ROBONZO: So for those of you that are listening, Dave is co-host and creator or co-creator, however you guys title yourselves, you and Paul, of the GigGab Podcast, The Working Musician’s Podcast.

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ROBONZO: And they were nice enough to have me on an episode a while back.

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ROBONZO: You guys are well over 100 episodes into it now, aren’t you?

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, I think we just did 126 or something like that.

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DAVE HAMILTON: No, maybe more than that.

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DAVE HAMILTON: I should look, I don’t know.

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DAVE HAMILTON: But yeah, we’re pushing 130.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, we did.

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DAVE HAMILTON: We just 126 this week.

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ROBONZO: Yes, I was gonna tell you, yeah, it’s 126.

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ROBONZO: I was listening to it earlier today.

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DAVE HAMILTON: There you go.

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ROBONZO: Yeah, so yeah, I became acquainted with you because of Paul Kent, who’s been on the show.

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ROBONZO: And I’m assuming that you guys met because of some Mac related something.

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ROBONZO: Is that true?

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DAVE HAMILTON: That’s totally true.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, so Paul has always been a conference organizer.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And we’ve published an online website, whatever you want, a blog.

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DAVE HAMILTON: We started it 19 years ago called Mac Observer before the word blog or even weblog existed.

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DAVE HAMILTON: So I always stumble when people say, what is it?

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DAVE HAMILTON: Oh, it’s a blog, but I never thought of it that way.

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DAVE HAMILTON: But anyway, Paul came to us when he was doing his QuickTime Live Conference, I think, and asked us to be media sponsors, which meant we would help promote it.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And then to the attendees, he would promote us.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And there was, you know, kind of cross promotion and that sort of thing, which happens a lot with conferences and media outlets.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And so we did that.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And then that’s how we met, but we had never met face to face.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And then Paul, his company was called Mactivity.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And there’s a funny ending to this story, which is why I’m digging in.

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DAVE HAMILTON: He also was organizing just the conference portion at that time of a show, a much bigger show called Macworld Expo.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And then he gave like a pre-show speech one day.

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DAVE HAMILTON: It was, you know, Macworld would always kick off with a Steve Jobs keynote in the morning, whatever the morning was.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And so the day before there were some press events or something.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And so Paul gave a speech that day, you know, kind of welcoming everybody and there’s stuff going on or whatever.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And one of my guys, we were all there, but one of my guys covered it and wrote a story.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And Apple is a weird company.

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DAVE HAMILTON: They’re really like crazy about who says what.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And especially back in the Steve Jobs era, you know, there were people that were fired for just like thinking the word rumor.

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DAVE HAMILTON: So in this article, one of my guys had written and he said, you know, Paul Kent acknowledged the rumors.

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DAVE HAMILTON: It was that he acknowledged the existence of the rumors, but Paul was really sensitive to this because, you know, his relationship and his livelihood was based on this weird sort of Apple infused thing.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And so Paul got really angry and he sent me this big, long email and I went and re-read the article and we kind of had a back and forth and I was like, I support my guy.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And so we were having this tiff, not really a tiff, but, you know, heated exchange and then ran into each other and the exchange was all via email and then ran into each other.

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DAVE HAMILTON: The first time we met face to face was in a men’s room and washing our hands.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And I was like, you’re Paul.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, I said, right.

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DAVE HAMILTON: I said, you know, I’m Dave.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And so we kind of, and you know how it is when you get some, especially email, man, it’s so, it can get, like, it’s often the wrong venue for any conversation like that at all.

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DAVE HAMILTON: But, you know, sometimes you find yourself in the middle of it and it’s like, oh crap.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And thankfully we met face to face.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And I mean, you know, in 10 seconds, the whole thing, like the temperature on it, like dropped a hundred degrees and it was totally fine.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, and we’ve been great friends ever since.

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DAVE HAMILTON: In fact, I think it was that year or maybe the next year, but it was very shortly thereafter that Paul came to me and he said, you’re a drummer.

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DAVE HAMILTON: I said, yeah.

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DAVE HAMILTON: He says, I’m putting together a thing called the Mac World All-Star Band.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And what it was was there would always be these parties at the trade show, you know, cause that’s just gotta do something with people at night.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And so, you know, people would go out and drink and there would be some band playing in the corner.

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DAVE HAMILTON: It would be some local band, nondescript, totally irrelevant to whatever was going on.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And everybody, for the most part, would try to ignore it.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And so Paul’s thought was, hey, if we put together a band of people that are relevant to the community, then that can actually be a focal point as opposed to an annoyance.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And he was totally right about that.

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DAVE HAMILTON: So that’s really where we got to know each other very well, was in playing in that Mac World All-Star Band.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And we played together for over a decade.

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DAVE HAMILTON: We did maybe 20 gigs, you know, but they were only at trade shows.

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DAVE HAMILTON: So it was pretty good.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah.

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ROBONZO: So he has an All-Star Band history that began long before the Los Gatos Music in the Park All-Star Band.

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DAVE HAMILTON: No, that’s right.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And we’ve talked about that on GigGab, where a lot of the things that he learned in doing the All-Star Band for the Mac World All-Star Band, he sort of applied.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And it was like, oh, yeah, I see.

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DAVE HAMILTON: We’ve stumbled on these things together.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And you know, the lesson’s been learned.

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ROBONZO: Yeah.

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ROBONZO: That’s funny.

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ROBONZO: And so for those of you who are curious and haven’t heard GigGab before, Paul is also featured in episode nine of this podcast.

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ROBONZO: You should check it out.

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ROBONZO: He was a great guest to have and a good friend.

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ROBONZO: So you are into a lot of stuff.

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ROBONZO: We’ve already hit some of it.

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ROBONZO: The Mac Observer, BackBeat Media, Mac Geek Gab, another podcast.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Easy for you to say.

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DAVE HAMILTON: That’s right.

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ROBONZO: That’s tough.

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ROBONZO: It is tough.

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ROBONZO: I was laughing today listening to you intro GigGab The Working Musician’s Podcast.

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ROBONZO: And I’m like, man, that’s got to be hard.

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ROBONZO: And I did hear you laughing yourself for stumbling on it.

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DAVE HAMILTON: But I stumbled it this week.

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DAVE HAMILTON: I know.

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ROBONZO: That’s great.

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ROBONZO: I’m glad you left it.

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ROBONZO: Two bands.

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ROBONZO: I bet you’re subbing.

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ROBONZO: You are still doing The Small Business Show podcast, right?

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DAVE HAMILTON: Correct.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yep.

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ROBONZO: And you’re kind of heading just about all of these things up.

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ROBONZO: I know you’re getting some help.

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ROBONZO: You have some partners and some of them, but pretty amazing.

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ROBONZO: You have a family.

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DAVE HAMILTON: I do.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Then I actually, I actually get to see my family and I’ve prioritized that and actually sacrificed some, probably, certainly some business successes and especially some gig opportunities to get to know my kids.

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DAVE HAMILTON: But you know, that’s a priority.

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DAVE HAMILTON: We all pick our priorities, right?

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ROBONZO: Yeah.

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ROBONZO: Yeah, we have to.

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ROBONZO: I’m assuming you guys have touched on that very topic in GigGab, haven’t you?

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, we have.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, for sure.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And from several different angles, there’s the family angle and then there’s the significant other wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, you know, whatever angle too, that they all play a role because, you know, being in a band, even just playing music, even if you’re not in a band, just playing music in general, it takes you out of the house at times when most people are in their homes, right?

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DAVE HAMILTON: It definitely, it cuts into family time far more frequently than it cuts into, say, work time, although that happens too.

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ROBONZO: So while we’re still on GigGab, is there one episode that sticks out in your mind as one to send people to if they’re a first timer and haven’t heard it and just want to check it out?

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DAVE HAMILTON: Well, man, that’s a, so folks, I have not been prepped on any of this, so I am thinking about this actively.

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ROBONZO: We can come back to it too.

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DAVE HAMILTON: No, no, in terms of, so there’s two types of shows that we do, right?

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DAVE HAMILTON: There’s interviews that we do and we’ve done, I don’t know, maybe 10 of them in the course of two years.

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DAVE HAMILTON: It’s certainly not the norm, but it’s part of our thing.

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DAVE HAMILTON: And with the interview shows, and then the other shows are just Paul and I sort of focusing on different topics.

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DAVE HAMILTON: With the interview shows, obviously, the first one you’d want to listen to is the one we did with Roberto here.

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ROBONZO: And that’s episode number, neither of us remember, but you can find it if you’re really interested, if you just look for Unstarving Musician.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, yeah, we can put a link, put a link somewhere, yeah, exactly.

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DAVE HAMILTON: But we’ve had the pleasure of having some really great interview guests.

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DAVE HAMILTON: We had Jan Hamer on, we had Kenny Aronoff on.

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DAVE HAMILTON: That was probably the most, it’s interesting, I mean, I’ve known Jan 20 years, but the Kenny interview was the most natural, least diversion from the normal GigGab thing, because Kenny’s just a gigging musician.

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DAVE HAMILTON: I say that, he’s at a different level than I am.

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DAVE HAMILTON: He had a different level than most of us.

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ROBONZO: He’s kind of reinvented himself.

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ROBONZO: He’s been in the business so long, and I read something not terribly long ago.

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ROBONZO: And I was like, wow, this guy is so impressive because he’s had to sort of reinvent himself and figure out how he continues to work.

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ROBONZO: And I know he does a lot of stuff and he does it really well, and he’s such a great player.

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ROBONZO: So I could see that.

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ROBONZO: Yeah, he’s a gig.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, it was just like GigGab with a third host.

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DAVE HAMILTON: He wasn’t a guest as much as he was sort of a third host because it didn’t really change the flow of the show.

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DAVE HAMILTON: It was just like we’re talking about gigs.

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DAVE HAMILTON: So that one was pretty good.

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DAVE HAMILTON: But the one we did with Robert Berry, who I think is probably known to most musicians in the San Francisco Bay Area, but probably unknown to anyone else.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Robert is a gigging musician, claws for every bit of success that he’s had, but has had some worldwide success and tastes of that, but also very much remembers and lives his sort of local gigging scenarios.

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DAVE HAMILTON: So, I always kind of like that interview and I’ve heard from other listeners that in terms of our guest interviews, that’s one of the best ones because he’s relatable and he’s like the local boy done good kind of thing.

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ROBONZO: And those are, for those of you listening, episode 100 was Kenny Aronoff.

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ROBONZO: That’s cool.

00:12:06.007 –> 00:12:09.347
ROBONZO: And then episode 71 was Robert Berry.

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ROBONZO: So check those out.

00:12:10.047 –> 00:12:12.147
ROBONZO: And then you’ll have to search for Jan Hamer.

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ROBONZO: That was a really cool one as well.

00:12:13.747 –> 00:12:14.367
ROBONZO: I did hear that one.

00:12:14.387 –> 00:12:15.467
ROBONZO: I’ll have to go back and hear these others.

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ROBONZO: Trivia real quick.

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ROBONZO: Rush is to you as Springsteen is to Paul, is that right?

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DAVE HAMILTON: That’s a fair thing to say.

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DAVE HAMILTON: Rush is…

00:12:26.767 –> 00:12:32.027
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, there’s a lot of bands that I like, several bands that I have gone very deep into.

00:12:32.507 –> 00:12:47.287
DAVE HAMILTON: But in terms of that band that was, and at some level still is, extremely influential to me as a young player and just as a young person, Rush, absolutely.

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DAVE HAMILTON: I’m a child, you know, I was born in the 70s, so a child of the 80s, teenager in the 80s, and that was a great time to be…

00:12:54.727 –> 00:12:58.747
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s still a good time to be a Rush fan, except it’s sort of sad now because they probably won’t ever play live again.

00:12:59.187 –> 00:13:01.507
DAVE HAMILTON: But yeah, Rush is definitely that band to me.

00:13:01.527 –> 00:13:02.707
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, I was a drummer of the 80s.

00:13:02.727 –> 00:13:09.167
DAVE HAMILTON: Neil Peart, it would have been impossible for me to avoid learning about Neil Peart, and then, of course, I went deep on it.

00:13:10.047 –> 00:13:19.907
ROBONZO: For me, he was such a different drummer, kind of drummer, because I don’t know if it’s the right word to use, but his playing was so staccato in comparison to the things I was listening to.

00:13:20.207 –> 00:13:23.587
ROBONZO: Most everyone I listened to definitely had swing in what they had done.

00:13:24.467 –> 00:13:29.827
ROBONZO: I always liked his playing, but I guess in a way, subconsciously, I might have felt I could never do that.

00:13:29.847 –> 00:13:31.447
ROBONZO: I’m so used to trying to swing.

00:13:31.467 –> 00:13:38.087
DAVE HAMILTON: But yeah, there’s a flow to his playing, and yet it’s still, especially the earlier stuff.

00:13:38.107 –> 00:13:46.087
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, he went through a sort of a reinvention of his own technique when he learned to play a little more fluidly studying with Freddie Gruber.

00:13:46.327 –> 00:13:56.147
DAVE HAMILTON: But prior to that, which is sort of most of the career that most people know about, he was far more, yes, staccato or rigid, but still could drive.

00:13:56.487 –> 00:14:03.567
DAVE HAMILTON: It wasn’t metronomic perfection, even though it was really close to metronomic perfection.

00:14:03.967 –> 00:14:05.827
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s still like it rocked.

00:14:06.447 –> 00:14:07.807
DAVE HAMILTON: And that was the thing.

00:14:08.107 –> 00:14:23.567
DAVE HAMILTON: Being a young rock drummer, but also playing in the marching band and the orchestra and all of that stuff, prog rock was a very natural thing for me to become interested in because it was either that or like go listen to The Cure.

00:14:23.747 –> 00:14:32.727
DAVE HAMILTON: Which to be fair, I learned to love The Cure and learned to love bands like REM and things like that that were sort of born out of that punk era.

00:14:33.307 –> 00:14:34.747
DAVE HAMILTON: But it took me a while to get there.

00:14:35.307 –> 00:14:42.547
DAVE HAMILTON: So it was Rush and ELP and Yes and sort of all those heady bands, Mahavishnu and Weather Report and all that stuff.

00:14:42.567 –> 00:14:45.987
DAVE HAMILTON: But Peart’s playing was always the one that it resonated with me.

00:14:45.987 –> 00:14:54.987
DAVE HAMILTON: And I don’t want to say that I can play like Peart, but I was able to understand the way he played very, very quickly.

00:14:55.007 –> 00:15:00.827
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, it took me a long time to learn any one of his parts and I would never be able to play him like he does.

00:15:01.267 –> 00:15:06.707
DAVE HAMILTON: But compare that to say Zappa’s drummers, I appreciate and I love what they do.

00:15:07.007 –> 00:15:10.647
DAVE HAMILTON: But now I can begin to really grok it.

00:15:11.067 –> 00:15:14.087
DAVE HAMILTON: But back then, man, that was totally foreign to me.

00:15:14.107 –> 00:15:17.647
DAVE HAMILTON: I just like I could never have learned one of those drum parts at the time.

00:15:17.747 –> 00:15:20.987
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, I could have, but it was not a linear process.

00:15:22.727 –> 00:15:27.147
ROBONZO: Yeah, I got to see their 50th tour or Rush 50 or whatever it was called.

00:15:27.547 –> 00:15:29.107
ROBONZO: I had not seen them for decades.

00:15:29.387 –> 00:15:30.467
ROBONZO: Thank you.

00:15:30.527 –> 00:15:30.787
ROBONZO: Sorry.

00:15:30.987 –> 00:15:32.347
ROBONZO: I had not seen them for decades.

00:15:32.547 –> 00:15:37.247
ROBONZO: And I had a nice side view of Neil Pirrett for most of the show.

00:15:37.347 –> 00:15:38.987
ROBONZO: They were moving weird stuff around on the stage.

00:15:39.007 –> 00:15:44.707
ROBONZO: But I was literally nervous about him being able to execute all the things because they went really far, far back.

00:15:44.707 –> 00:15:46.467
ROBONZO: They were covering albums, as you probably know.

00:15:48.027 –> 00:15:54.347
ROBONZO: And I came home, told my wife, I was literally, my palms were sweating, like, oh my God, is he going to be able to do all that stuff?

00:15:54.647 –> 00:15:55.687
DAVE HAMILTON: Is he going to get it all?

00:15:55.787 –> 00:15:56.207
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah.

00:15:56.227 –> 00:15:57.147
ROBONZO: And he did, of course.

00:15:57.287 –> 00:15:58.507
DAVE HAMILTON: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:58.767 –> 00:15:59.067
DAVE HAMILTON: Right.

00:15:59.267 –> 00:16:00.027
DAVE HAMILTON: No, there is that…

00:16:00.067 –> 00:16:12.947
DAVE HAMILTON: Well, and I mean, to me, that element of danger in live performance is absolutely the thing that draws me back to the stage every single time.

00:16:13.407 –> 00:16:14.827
DAVE HAMILTON: And I think it has to be there.

00:16:14.847 –> 00:16:24.167
DAVE HAMILTON: Like, if you go see a band and you are not nervous for them at least some points, it’s like, to me, that’s where the entertainment comes from.

00:16:24.327 –> 00:16:28.087
DAVE HAMILTON: Like, I can listen to an album that you’ve perfected, and there’s some beauty in that.

00:16:28.527 –> 00:16:29.847
DAVE HAMILTON: But I’m not looking for that.

00:16:30.227 –> 00:16:36.467
DAVE HAMILTON: And, you know, Rush, especially, they would hit the stage with the intention of playing it like the album.

00:16:36.487 –> 00:16:44.447
DAVE HAMILTON: And that makes it even more dangerous because it’s like you can’t flub that fill or, you know, play it a little more simply because tonight’s not a great night.

00:16:44.787 –> 00:16:52.287
DAVE HAMILTON: No, your goal and your stated goal and therefore the expectation is you’re going to play every fill like you recorded them, which is awesome.

00:16:52.307 –> 00:16:54.347
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, it’s like, yeah, it’s dangerous.

00:16:54.387 –> 00:16:55.607
ROBONZO: It’s awesome.

00:16:55.667 –> 00:17:01.107
ROBONZO: I don’t see as much live music as I used to, I confess, but I do feel like we don’t see that as much.

00:17:01.727 –> 00:17:10.547
ROBONZO: A lot of it, while great, smoothed and polished comes across to me, live is very manageable, which loses some of that, like you say, danger.

00:17:10.567 –> 00:17:11.667
ROBONZO: But that’s a good way to describe it.

00:17:12.067 –> 00:17:13.227
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, no, I like the danger.

00:17:13.387 –> 00:17:26.807
DAVE HAMILTON: And when there’s a potential disaster happening on stage, either as me witnessing it as an audience member or me participating in it as a musician, that’s where, like, those are the memories that stick with me.

00:17:26.827 –> 00:17:30.867
DAVE HAMILTON: In the moment, I mean, I’ve learned to appreciate them as fun in the moment.

00:17:31.387 –> 00:17:34.887
DAVE HAMILTON: I did a benefit last night for this woman who’s, it’s awful.

00:17:34.907 –> 00:17:42.587
DAVE HAMILTON: She’s suffering from cancer and she’s got a great attitude about it, but she’s part of this theater troupe that I’ve been involved with for about the last year.

00:17:43.307 –> 00:17:49.887
DAVE HAMILTON: And so we put together a benefit for her last night and we played a bunch of songs, but it was cabaret style where people just kind of threw things together.

00:17:50.207 –> 00:17:53.307
DAVE HAMILTON: So I literally didn’t get the song list until 1:15 a.m.

00:17:53.367 –> 00:17:56.727
DAVE HAMILTON: yesterday morning, and downbeat was 8 p.m.

00:17:56.747 –> 00:17:57.667
DAVE HAMILTON: yesterday evening.

00:17:58.267 –> 00:18:06.827
DAVE HAMILTON: And yeah, so it went really well, but there was one moment, and some songs were going to be tracked and some were, you know, the band was going to play.

00:18:06.847 –> 00:18:08.927
DAVE HAMILTON: Most of them actually the band played, but there were a few tracked songs.

00:18:08.947 –> 00:18:09.987
DAVE HAMILTON: And one of them was her.

00:18:10.327 –> 00:18:15.607
DAVE HAMILTON: She had rewritten the lyrics to Smash Mouth’s All-Star, and she was going to sing it along with the track.

00:18:15.967 –> 00:18:24.167
DAVE HAMILTON: And it just so happened, luckily, that this particular moment was sandwiched in between two songs that the band was going to play.

00:18:24.187 –> 00:18:26.607
DAVE HAMILTON: In fact, that changed mid-show.

00:18:26.607 –> 00:18:27.847
DAVE HAMILTON: It was supposed to be before.

00:18:28.087 –> 00:18:32.147
DAVE HAMILTON: She was supposed to play and do it, and then we were going to come back out on stage and do these other two songs.

00:18:32.167 –> 00:18:34.287
DAVE HAMILTON: But for some reason, the first one got swapped.

00:18:34.307 –> 00:18:39.507
DAVE HAMILTON: So we played the first one, and then it was like, well, we’re not going to leave just for one little track thing.

00:18:39.527 –> 00:18:40.047
DAVE HAMILTON: We’ll wait.

00:18:40.207 –> 00:18:42.747
DAVE HAMILTON: We’ll sit and watch her do this and do it.

00:18:42.767 –> 00:18:45.507
DAVE HAMILTON: And they started playing the track, and the track had lyrics on it.

00:18:45.767 –> 00:18:46.787
DAVE HAMILTON: It was not the track.

00:18:46.807 –> 00:18:48.207
DAVE HAMILTON: It was the actual song.

00:18:48.867 –> 00:18:50.847
DAVE HAMILTON: And then they tried it again, and it had lyrics on it.

00:18:51.267 –> 00:18:53.987
DAVE HAMILTON: And so she said, no, no, no, stop the track.

00:18:54.147 –> 00:18:59.887
DAVE HAMILTON: I wrote these so that I could sing the things that I wrote, not just sing along with Smash Mouth.

00:19:00.647 –> 00:19:02.687
DAVE HAMILTON: And she says, I’ll do it a cappella.

00:19:02.707 –> 00:19:06.187
DAVE HAMILTON: And I looked at the guys, and I sort of become the de facto music director.

00:19:06.207 –> 00:19:07.327
DAVE HAMILTON: for this thing, which is not good.

00:19:07.347 –> 00:19:14.267
DAVE HAMILTON: But I looked at him, and the bass player had already figured out the progression of the, at least of the verses.

00:19:14.327 –> 00:19:17.247
DAVE HAMILTON: And I said, guys, do we know this well enough to do it?

00:19:17.587 –> 00:19:18.427
DAVE HAMILTON: And they’re like, I don’t know.

00:19:18.447 –> 00:19:25.507
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m like, well, we’re not going to sit here and leave the poor woman about whom this whole event exists.

00:19:25.907 –> 00:19:29.487
DAVE HAMILTON: We’re not going to leave her hanging to do this a cappella.

00:19:29.707 –> 00:19:31.407
DAVE HAMILTON: Like, we’re going to back her up.

00:19:31.427 –> 00:19:33.747
DAVE HAMILTON: So I just started playing the groove, and it worked out fine.

00:19:33.747 –> 00:19:37.067
DAVE HAMILTON: We didn’t play the right progression through the choruses or anything, I don’t think.

00:19:37.247 –> 00:19:38.127
DAVE HAMILTON: But it didn’t matter.

00:19:38.667 –> 00:19:39.367
DAVE HAMILTON: We locked in.

00:19:39.387 –> 00:19:41.147
DAVE HAMILTON: She sang the words, and it was great.

00:19:41.227 –> 00:19:45.987
DAVE HAMILTON: And those moments, especially for an event like that, it was perfect.

00:19:46.227 –> 00:19:50.567
DAVE HAMILTON: And I’m sure most of the people in the crowd actually thought it was schtick and that we had planned it, but we didn’t.

00:19:50.767 –> 00:19:53.967
DAVE HAMILTON: It was truly one of those like, nope, we’re doing this.

00:19:54.087 –> 00:19:54.687
DAVE HAMILTON: Here we go.

00:19:54.847 –> 00:19:55.487
DAVE HAMILTON: So it was fun.

00:19:55.587 –> 00:19:56.627
ROBONZO: What a bunch of pros.

00:19:56.647 –> 00:19:57.187
ROBONZO: That’s nice.

00:19:57.387 –> 00:19:58.707
ROBONZO: I’m sure she was happy.

00:19:59.467 –> 00:19:59.887
DAVE HAMILTON: She was.

00:20:00.847 –> 00:20:03.467
DAVE HAMILTON: Oh, she even after it, she’s like, you know that it couldn’t have worked out better.

00:20:03.487 –> 00:20:06.807
DAVE HAMILTON: She said, because playing with the track is unforgiving, right?

00:20:06.827 –> 00:20:09.507
DAVE HAMILTON: The chorus is going to be where the chorus is.

00:20:09.887 –> 00:20:13.547
DAVE HAMILTON: And so she doesn’t have any moments to like just take a breath while the band vamps.

00:20:13.607 –> 00:20:14.427
DAVE HAMILTON: There’s no vamps.

00:20:14.567 –> 00:20:16.427
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, the track is what the track is.

00:20:16.447 –> 00:20:19.247
DAVE HAMILTON: So she’s like, it’s like, I don’t know why we were going to do it to a track.

00:20:19.267 –> 00:20:22.167
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m like, well, you know, the God smiled upon us.

00:20:23.247 –> 00:20:23.547
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah.

00:20:24.107 –> 00:20:31.407
ROBONZO: I was going to ask you a little bit about theater, but I’m going to ask you because of the way you started that story.

00:20:31.667 –> 00:20:33.227
ROBONZO: I’d like to go into your education.

00:20:33.387 –> 00:20:34.507
ROBONZO: You went to UConn, right?

00:20:34.527 –> 00:20:35.607
ROBONZO: University of Connecticut?

00:20:35.927 –> 00:20:36.307
DAVE HAMILTON: I did.

00:20:37.207 –> 00:20:39.087
ROBONZO: Studied music or business there?

00:20:40.207 –> 00:20:44.087
DAVE HAMILTON: So I studied, actually went to school for computer engineering.

00:20:44.487 –> 00:20:48.787
DAVE HAMILTON: And UConn was, in the end, UConn was actually the wrong school for me for a lot of reasons.

00:20:48.807 –> 00:21:00.227
DAVE HAMILTON: But I realized after I went there that when I went to school, I decided not to do any music or marching band or anything like that when I got to school.

00:21:00.247 –> 00:21:02.527
ROBONZO: Does that mean you had been doing it all through high school?

00:21:02.727 –> 00:21:04.247
DAVE HAMILTON: All through high school and before.

00:21:04.347 –> 00:21:07.327
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, I’d been playing in middle school bands and high school bands.

00:21:07.627 –> 00:21:12.187
DAVE HAMILTON: And it was really my entire social structure was, you know, defined mostly by music.

00:21:12.647 –> 00:21:15.387
DAVE HAMILTON: But I decided, no, I need to like focus on my studies.

00:21:15.407 –> 00:21:17.087
DAVE HAMILTON: And so I just won’t do this here.

00:21:17.607 –> 00:21:20.787
DAVE HAMILTON: And it was stupid because it’s a school of 20,000 people or something.

00:21:20.807 –> 00:21:26.947
DAVE HAMILTON: And I needed to not have something that helped me define a social structure was for me awful.

00:21:27.607 –> 00:21:31.127
DAVE HAMILTON: So I actually did switch my major to music after the first year.

00:21:31.547 –> 00:21:40.247
DAVE HAMILTON: And I did another year and a half in the music program there, wound up in that year and a half taking a crap ton of harmony and theory classes.

00:21:40.607 –> 00:21:43.347
DAVE HAMILTON: And now I am still on a break from school.

00:21:43.647 –> 00:21:46.667
DAVE HAMILTON: I wound up, I really just, a big school was not the right thing for me.

00:21:46.687 –> 00:21:48.927
DAVE HAMILTON: And I was making, you know, I’d started businesses or whatever.

00:21:48.927 –> 00:21:55.827
DAVE HAMILTON: And I was making more money in summers than friends who had graduated, were making in like their first years out and I was miserable going to school.

00:21:55.847 –> 00:21:56.787
DAVE HAMILTON: I was like, this is stupid.

00:21:56.807 –> 00:21:58.747
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m just going to like, I’ll figure something out.

00:21:59.207 –> 00:22:00.627
DAVE HAMILTON: So I’m still figuring it out.

00:22:02.007 –> 00:22:06.927
ROBONZO: Well, that adds up for me in listening to some early GigGab episodes.

00:22:07.487 –> 00:22:11.767
ROBONZO: Just hearing you talk about gigs and the different types of work that you’ve done.

00:22:11.787 –> 00:22:15.347
ROBONZO: And then we had an opportunity to talk briefly when I was on the podcast.

00:22:15.587 –> 00:22:18.687
ROBONZO: I gathered that you had a good grasp of theory.

00:22:18.987 –> 00:22:24.167
ROBONZO: So I guess next question, and this one’s a selfish one, but I think other people would like to know too if there is a good answer for it.

00:22:24.187 –> 00:22:33.907
ROBONZO: But if one has gone through life as a musician and not taken theory or much theory, or even harmony, you separated the two.

00:22:33.927 –> 00:22:35.407
ROBONZO: But we’ll take theory first.

00:22:35.887 –> 00:22:36.207
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah.

00:22:36.347 –> 00:22:37.687
ROBONZO: Unless the other one’s easier to answer.

00:22:37.687 –> 00:22:39.887
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, they’re very related.

00:22:40.947 –> 00:22:50.167
ROBONZO: What would you recommend in terms of learning, but perhaps from the angle of what would be the one or two things you would tackle first in that area?

00:22:50.227 –> 00:22:53.167
ROBONZO: And what would be some things you would maybe just not bother with?

00:22:53.487 –> 00:22:55.787
ROBONZO: You know, like for me, I’m an older musician.

00:22:55.807 –> 00:22:58.207
ROBONZO: I’m not in my 20s, 30s or 40s anymore.

00:22:58.667 –> 00:23:04.667
ROBONZO: And so, yeah, I mean, I’m still doing some ed online, as you know, with Mike Johnston.

00:23:04.847 –> 00:23:07.367
ROBONZO: But yeah, what would you recommend to someone who wants to?

00:23:07.747 –> 00:23:08.587
DAVE HAMILTON: That’s a good question.

00:23:08.607 –> 00:23:11.567
DAVE HAMILTON: I’ve never really thought about it in terms of adult ed before.

00:23:11.587 –> 00:23:21.207
DAVE HAMILTON: But sort of the basics would be learn piano, because that is the physical manifestation of the music staff, right?

00:23:21.567 –> 00:23:29.147
DAVE HAMILTON: Like trying to understand a music staff as it relates to a guitar is awful, because it really doesn’t relate to a guitar.

00:23:29.347 –> 00:23:37.827
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, you can point at a note on the staff, and there’s four places on a guitar where you can literally play that same note, whereas on the piano there is one.

00:23:38.527 –> 00:23:46.407
DAVE HAMILTON: So learning piano, even just to get some basics together, so that you can, and I would say, learn with the goal.

00:23:46.407 –> 00:23:54.747
DAVE HAMILTON: If theory is your goal, make sure your instructor knows that, because there’s a totally different way to approach piano if you want to learn about chords and structure.

00:23:55.027 –> 00:24:10.087
DAVE HAMILTON: So you’d be learning about how to form triads, and how to form major chords and minor chords and sevenths and diminisheds, and that sort of thing, and just learning that, those patterns and those constructs will make, sort of, that is theory, right?

00:24:11.047 –> 00:24:21.567
DAVE HAMILTON: And being able to see it and touch it and hear it in real time on the piano, to me, that’s the simplest way to learn theory, for sure.

00:24:21.807 –> 00:24:40.487
DAVE HAMILTON: And then, once you kind of get that, especially if you learn how to find in any key, like the one, four and five chords or whatever, of that key, once you understand how the piano works, you can then go find the one, four, five and two and seven and six and, you know, augmented third chords or whatever you want in any key.

00:24:41.147 –> 00:24:47.507
DAVE HAMILTON: And now theory starts to make sense, and you can start to see how all of these things piece together.

00:24:47.527 –> 00:24:58.367
DAVE HAMILTON: And really, once you’ve sort of learned those chord constructs, my advice would be to start downloading guitar chord charts, not tab charts, but chord charts from the internet of songs that you know.

00:24:58.967 –> 00:25:06.487
DAVE HAMILTON: And, you know, you can either sing along or at least sing along in your head while you’re plunking out these chords that are written above the lyrics on the piano.

00:25:06.987 –> 00:25:12.607
DAVE HAMILTON: And because you know the song, you know what it’s supposed to sound like, and then you can really start kind of playing around with it.

00:25:12.627 –> 00:25:16.347
DAVE HAMILTON: So that would be my advice, is use the piano to do it.

00:25:16.367 –> 00:25:16.987
DAVE HAMILTON: Or a keyboard.

00:25:17.007 –> 00:25:18.387
DAVE HAMILTON: Maybe you don’t need an actual piano.

00:25:18.627 –> 00:25:25.087
ROBONZO: And the recommendations for the guitar chord download is just because they’re more widely available and they’re still applicable to the piano, right?

00:25:25.407 –> 00:25:27.567
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s just chord charts is really what it is.

00:25:27.627 –> 00:25:28.487
DAVE HAMILTON: And you’re right.

00:25:28.507 –> 00:25:34.607
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, there’s far more resources out there for guitar chords, even though really they’re just chords.

00:25:36.087 –> 00:25:36.787
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, that’s it.

00:25:37.087 –> 00:25:38.727
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, but yeah, it’s guitar chords.

00:25:38.747 –> 00:25:39.767
DAVE HAMILTON: And that’s what I mean.

00:25:40.627 –> 00:25:42.627
DAVE HAMILTON: If I want to just play around with stuff, I’ll download it.

00:25:42.647 –> 00:25:46.467
DAVE HAMILTON: And a couple of years ago, I started taking guitar lessons just to learn that instrument.

00:25:47.267 –> 00:25:48.947
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, minimal level of facility.

00:25:48.967 –> 00:25:50.487
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m not a great guitar player by any stretch.

00:25:50.807 –> 00:25:58.987
DAVE HAMILTON: But it’s fun to take those chord charts and play a song on piano and then exactly the same chart and play it on guitar.

00:25:59.407 –> 00:26:09.227
DAVE HAMILTON: And I can feel the synapses sort of being burned as I’m going back and forth between the two because you start to learn more about theory and how the two relate and all that.

00:26:09.247 –> 00:26:11.447
DAVE HAMILTON: You can sort of see the connections and all of it.

00:26:12.167 –> 00:26:22.087
ROBONZO: And you know, Mike Johnson, in case someone in the class or he ever listens to this, he does a fair amount of stuff on theory and will almost do anything the student body asks for.

00:26:22.107 –> 00:26:24.727
ROBONZO: But yeah, it’s just something I didn’t spend a lot of time with.

00:26:24.747 –> 00:26:30.887
ROBONZO: My education has mostly been on the street, so to speak, and I had a few college classes, but it wasn’t my major.

00:26:30.907 –> 00:26:32.727
ROBONZO: So here I am having fun learning.

00:26:33.087 –> 00:26:34.967
ROBONZO: We’re getting a little bit of formal training now.

00:26:35.607 –> 00:26:40.087
DAVE HAMILTON: I would also recommend to people, especially if you want to get more work, learn how to read.

00:26:40.507 –> 00:26:41.387
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, read music.

00:26:41.527 –> 00:26:43.667
DAVE HAMILTON: Reading English is also important, obviously.

00:26:44.927 –> 00:26:49.207
DAVE HAMILTON: But learning how to read music, you know, it opens so many doors.

00:26:49.287 –> 00:26:59.667
DAVE HAMILTON: And it frankly, in some ways, it makes things easier because it gives you a common language to very efficiently communicate with other musicians, as long as they can also read.

00:26:59.927 –> 00:27:00.927
ROBONZO: Yeah, I believe that.

00:27:01.307 –> 00:27:08.507
ROBONZO: I had Mike Dawson, the managing editor of Modern Drummer, on episode one, unbeknownst to him, he would be episode one.

00:27:08.527 –> 00:27:11.327
ROBONZO: But I know he’s a pretty school musician.

00:27:12.487 –> 00:27:15.367
ROBONZO: And we talked a little bit about the mixture of people that he plays with.

00:27:15.567 –> 00:27:23.447
ROBONZO: And surprisingly, I mean, it’s about 50-50 as far as who is formally trained and who’s not until you get to a certain type of gig at a certain level, he said.

00:27:23.467 –> 00:27:36.867
ROBONZO: But I hear him on their podcast and in talking to him, his ability to do what you did, what you described for that theater gig, to take a cover gig on 48 Hours Notice because he can chart things fairly easily.

00:27:37.487 –> 00:27:38.167
ROBONZO: That’s really cool.

00:27:38.347 –> 00:27:43.287
ROBONZO: Me, I’d have to listen a lot and make some cryptic notes.

00:27:43.747 –> 00:27:57.147
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, that’s the thing is having the ability to think like that and think in terms of how music is written, it makes that charting process so much more efficient, I would think.

00:27:57.167 –> 00:28:00.107
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, I don’t know that I’ve ever charted anything before.

00:28:00.127 –> 00:28:02.847
DAVE HAMILTON: I learned how to read music first, right?

00:28:02.907 –> 00:28:05.587
DAVE HAMILTON: So I can’t really speak to the experience without it.

00:28:06.187 –> 00:28:12.527
DAVE HAMILTON: But like last night, one of the tunes, actually two of them, but one of them was more straightforward, two of the tunes were from theater shows.

00:28:12.767 –> 00:28:18.647
DAVE HAMILTON: And one of them was a tune called The Money Song from a show called Avenue Q, which is an awesome show if you’ve never seen it.

00:28:19.567 –> 00:28:24.447
DAVE HAMILTON: And I’d seen the show, and I’m sure I had heard The Money Song before, but I don’t know it.

00:28:24.987 –> 00:28:26.187
DAVE HAMILTON: I couldn’t just come out and play it.

00:28:26.767 –> 00:28:27.807
DAVE HAMILTON: And I saw it on the list.

00:28:27.827 –> 00:28:29.127
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m like, okay, fine.

00:28:29.147 –> 00:28:31.607
DAVE HAMILTON: And I look and there’s a piano lead sheet.

00:28:32.307 –> 00:28:35.367
DAVE HAMILTON: And I’m like, okay, not even a lead sheet, actually, there was the piano score for it.

00:28:35.867 –> 00:28:37.707
DAVE HAMILTON: But I listened to it.

00:28:37.767 –> 00:28:42.507
DAVE HAMILTON: And this thing had more twists and turns than any prog rock opus out there.

00:28:42.527 –> 00:28:48.047
DAVE HAMILTON: It was different time signatures and different tempos happening and pauses and stops and this, that and the other thing.

00:28:48.667 –> 00:28:53.007
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m like, guys, there’s like four hours to the show.

00:28:53.527 –> 00:28:55.547
DAVE HAMILTON: I asked the person putting it together.

00:28:55.567 –> 00:28:57.767
DAVE HAMILTON: I said, do you have a drum book for this?

00:28:57.787 –> 00:29:00.347
DAVE HAMILTON: Because otherwise, we can’t do this.

00:29:01.667 –> 00:29:07.767
DAVE HAMILTON: What you’re asking would take weeks for me to chart through and learn and all of that.

00:29:07.787 –> 00:29:09.507
DAVE HAMILTON: I said, but if you’ve got music, I can do it.

00:29:09.527 –> 00:29:10.347
DAVE HAMILTON: And they said, we don’t have music.

00:29:10.747 –> 00:29:11.907
DAVE HAMILTON: So I got on the internet.

00:29:11.927 –> 00:29:16.087
DAVE HAMILTON: I thought, well, fine, a piano player can just do it without the rest of the band.

00:29:16.287 –> 00:29:17.007
DAVE HAMILTON: No problem.

00:29:17.447 –> 00:29:19.147
DAVE HAMILTON: Because we’ve got music for him and he can read.

00:29:19.747 –> 00:29:20.987
DAVE HAMILTON: But everybody in the band could read.

00:29:21.047 –> 00:29:24.527
DAVE HAMILTON: So everybody else took the piano chart and played with that.

00:29:24.567 –> 00:29:26.907
DAVE HAMILTON: But the piano chart doesn’t tell you what to do for the drums.

00:29:26.967 –> 00:29:29.227
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s really not at all applicable.

00:29:29.847 –> 00:29:32.927
DAVE HAMILTON: Other than, you know, I know how to count the measures, but that’s it.

00:29:33.367 –> 00:29:37.487
DAVE HAMILTON: And so I found online somebody had posted the drum book for that to Scribd.

00:29:37.507 –> 00:29:39.487
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, they shouldn’t have, but it’s fine.

00:29:39.547 –> 00:29:40.307
DAVE HAMILTON: They totally should have.

00:29:40.867 –> 00:29:46.747
DAVE HAMILTON: And so I downloaded just that one song and sight read it for the performance last night.

00:29:46.867 –> 00:29:47.667
DAVE HAMILTON: And it went great.

00:29:48.047 –> 00:29:53.087
DAVE HAMILTON: But not being able to read, you know, it would have been the three of them on stage without me playing.

00:29:53.247 –> 00:29:54.447
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah.

00:29:54.467 –> 00:29:54.727
ROBONZO: Wow.

00:29:54.747 –> 00:29:55.067
ROBONZO: That’s cool.

00:29:55.687 –> 00:30:04.627
ROBONZO: I recognize that in a little bit of reading I had at school that, wow, you can just take a sheet of music and go do a gig if you get proficient at this.

00:30:04.647 –> 00:30:07.187
ROBONZO: And I hear people talk about it all the time and it sounds really wonderful.

00:30:07.387 –> 00:30:09.947
ROBONZO: I have to back up to, you mentioned prog rock again.

00:30:09.967 –> 00:30:15.167
ROBONZO: I was going to tell you something that I hope you’ll find funny and just sort of everyone can make fun of me or at least go seriously.

00:30:15.827 –> 00:30:22.967
ROBONZO: Even though I was listening to some of it, and I’m talking probably decades ago, but the genre of prog rock, I didn’t know what it was.

00:30:22.987 –> 00:30:27.487
ROBONZO: And I thought they were referring to a music scene in Prague, Czechoslovakia.

00:30:27.547 –> 00:30:29.387
DAVE HAMILTON: Oh, isn’t that interesting?

00:30:29.407 –> 00:30:31.227
DAVE HAMILTON: I can totally see that.

00:30:31.247 –> 00:30:31.707
DAVE HAMILTON: Sure.

00:30:31.727 –> 00:30:32.867
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, right.

00:30:32.927 –> 00:30:33.587
DAVE HAMILTON: Why would you?

00:30:33.607 –> 00:30:37.187
ROBONZO: I didn’t read and subscribe to enough guitar magazines or something.

00:30:37.407 –> 00:30:38.527
DAVE HAMILTON: Right, right, right.

00:30:38.747 –> 00:30:39.427
DAVE HAMILTON: That’s too funny.

00:30:39.447 –> 00:30:40.827
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, that’s awesome.

00:30:42.007 –> 00:30:44.467
DAVE HAMILTON: Well, you know, life gets weird with labels.

00:30:44.467 –> 00:30:48.987
DAVE HAMILTON: So maybe it’s better that you didn’t know that there was a label on all this stuff that interested you.

00:30:50.147 –> 00:30:53.847
ROBONZO: So are you, I always like to ask guests, especially those who play.

00:30:54.067 –> 00:30:57.707
ROBONZO: I think I used that exact intro to this earlier this weekend, another episode.

00:30:57.727 –> 00:31:02.827
ROBONZO: But I like to talk about business and marketing if it’s applicable to you with your bands.

00:31:03.407 –> 00:31:05.147
ROBONZO: Well, I know it’s applicable in your business.

00:31:05.167 –> 00:31:05.987
ROBONZO: But what about your music?

00:31:06.587 –> 00:31:12.627
ROBONZO: Do you apply that to either the gigging or the pre-gigging and or any of the theater stuff?

00:31:12.867 –> 00:31:13.927
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, the theater stuff.

00:31:14.067 –> 00:31:20.227
DAVE HAMILTON: I really, I try mostly successfully to really just be the drummer.

00:31:20.627 –> 00:31:24.507
DAVE HAMILTON: And to be fair, I try to, my goal would be to just be the drummer for everything.

00:31:24.527 –> 00:31:30.767
DAVE HAMILTON: But I’m sort of incapable of actually doing that because I’m used to running businesses and I’m used to controlling things.

00:31:30.787 –> 00:31:37.587
DAVE HAMILTON: And when I see something that’s not the way I would like it to be, I can be persuasive sometimes to my own detriment.

00:31:37.927 –> 00:31:48.287
DAVE HAMILTON: So I get involved and especially in the bands that I’m in, I tend to eventually be involved in the power structure of whatever’s happening over time.

00:31:48.827 –> 00:31:50.907
DAVE HAMILTON: And so, yes, we do.

00:31:50.927 –> 00:31:58.207
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, one of the bands I play in, Fling, we do apply some of that marketing stuff, but not nearly enough.

00:31:58.427 –> 00:32:00.847
DAVE HAMILTON: We’re lazy about it and we know it.

00:32:01.287 –> 00:32:02.647
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, we do Facebook events.

00:32:02.947 –> 00:32:07.447
DAVE HAMILTON: We have an email list that we don’t leverage nearly as much as we should.

00:32:07.467 –> 00:32:08.887
DAVE HAMILTON: And I take all the blame for that.

00:32:09.327 –> 00:32:10.407
DAVE HAMILTON: Facebook’s great.

00:32:10.927 –> 00:32:11.667
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s fine.

00:32:11.827 –> 00:32:18.067
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s an aspect of marketing your band, but you will not succeed at attracting people to gigs if that’s all you use.

00:32:18.527 –> 00:32:26.167
DAVE HAMILTON: Email lists are still the best sort of mass communication way of getting people because you really get people to buy in.

00:32:26.827 –> 00:32:31.327
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, it doesn’t cost anything for them, but to sign up for your mailing list, you can do that at a gig.

00:32:31.667 –> 00:32:36.587
DAVE HAMILTON: It gives you an opportunity to talk with them on a set break, get them to sign up, and then you can communicate with them.

00:32:36.807 –> 00:32:50.947
DAVE HAMILTON: So when I was younger, we were much more proactive about the marketing stuff because you didn’t have this thing like Facebook where you could say, oh yeah, I’ll just go invite my 400 local friends, and wow, I did all my work.

00:32:50.967 –> 00:32:51.327
DAVE HAMILTON: Great.

00:32:51.487 –> 00:32:52.567
DAVE HAMILTON: It took me four seconds.

00:32:52.867 –> 00:32:56.747
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, chances are if it took you four seconds, it’s not enough work because everybody else can do the same thing.

00:32:57.687 –> 00:32:59.747
DAVE HAMILTON: But when I was younger, we went nuts.

00:33:00.307 –> 00:33:01.527
DAVE HAMILTON: I had a band called Go Figure.

00:33:01.947 –> 00:33:02.847
DAVE HAMILTON: It was an original band.

00:33:02.867 –> 00:33:04.627
DAVE HAMILTON: We played some covers, but it was an original band.

00:33:06.027 –> 00:33:12.807
DAVE HAMILTON: We had a couple of albums that we put out and actually started to make it happen on the college circuit.

00:33:13.007 –> 00:33:17.287
DAVE HAMILTON: Then there was infighting and all the normal stuff that just craters a band.

00:33:17.687 –> 00:33:23.447
DAVE HAMILTON: But we were together for a long time and really got the whole mailing list thing down.

00:33:24.107 –> 00:33:25.967
DAVE HAMILTON: Most bands weren’t doing that at the time.

00:33:26.007 –> 00:33:34.587
DAVE HAMILTON: That’s sort of the thing is find a way to market that is at least not just the lowest hanging fruit you can find.

00:33:34.607 –> 00:33:39.567
DAVE HAMILTON: So we would put together monthly mailers for our mailing list no matter what.

00:33:40.127 –> 00:33:42.207
DAVE HAMILTON: And we would put little notes in there.

00:33:42.627 –> 00:33:50.327
DAVE HAMILTON: We would obviously put our schedule on there, but we’d always have a little text section where we would write some stuff and we’d maybe draw some things and we’d do it on a postcard.

00:33:50.747 –> 00:33:53.767
DAVE HAMILTON: And then we’d send them out, maybe a thousand of them at a time.

00:33:53.787 –> 00:33:56.127
DAVE HAMILTON: I think our mailing list got up to like 1500 people or something.

00:33:56.387 –> 00:33:56.867
ROBONZO: Pretty good.

00:33:57.807 –> 00:34:03.567
DAVE HAMILTON: It wasn’t cheap, though, to make all that stuff up and then also pay postage on it and all that.

00:34:03.827 –> 00:34:08.987
DAVE HAMILTON: But it totally paid off because we’d go play gigs and there would be people there for an original band, which is great.

00:34:09.567 –> 00:34:11.147
ROBONZO: Oh, Snail Mail, too.

00:34:11.647 –> 00:34:12.247
DAVE HAMILTON: Snail Mail.

00:34:12.267 –> 00:34:13.207
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, this was the old days.

00:34:13.227 –> 00:34:16.947
DAVE HAMILTON: And I’m not convinced that Snail Mail wouldn’t be the best.

00:34:17.627 –> 00:34:20.447
DAVE HAMILTON: As we’re talking about this, I’m thinking maybe that’s what I should be doing with Fling.

00:34:20.747 –> 00:34:32.147
ROBONZO: Well, you can offer it as an option, I think, especially if you have someone who likes messing around with graphic stuff and people who appreciate getting that, whether it’s funny or just looks cool or whatever.

00:34:32.207 –> 00:34:38.367
ROBONZO: Maybe it’s a version of an in-venue poster or something, but with something about the gigs on it.

00:34:38.847 –> 00:34:54.627
ROBONZO: Yeah, for those that are listening and grapple with email or Facebook, one thing I used to do is I tried not to spend too much time on customizing every email, so I sent out a very similar template every week or month that I had.

00:34:54.767 –> 00:35:06.147
ROBONZO: If I had gigs pretty close together, I wouldn’t send one every week, but I used the same template and literally the only things that would change on there were perhaps the band that was playing, the name of the venue and the date and time, just the logistics.

00:35:06.487 –> 00:35:10.627
ROBONZO: And everything else was the same and I was of course trying to get them to the website.

00:35:10.647 –> 00:35:15.807
ROBONZO: But my thinking was, and I know it worked well for me, was just keep it simple so you can keep it sustainable.

00:35:16.727 –> 00:35:30.687
DAVE HAMILTON: That’s the key is you have to come up with a system that is sustainable and doesn’t require, now I’m spilling over into my small business show mindset, but we are big fans of systems over requiring a lot of creativity.

00:35:31.047 –> 00:35:32.087
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, exactly.

00:35:32.107 –> 00:35:34.467
DAVE HAMILTON: Well, because you need to repeat things.

00:35:34.547 –> 00:35:38.767
DAVE HAMILTON: If your goal is to get out one mailer, well, congratulations, you hit your goal.

00:35:38.787 –> 00:35:40.907
DAVE HAMILTON: Okay, you still need to do the next one.

00:35:43.167 –> 00:35:44.847
DAVE HAMILTON: So yeah, we always say goals are for losers.

00:35:45.767 –> 00:35:49.347
DAVE HAMILTON: Systems, well, because they are, because once you hit the goal, what’s next?

00:35:49.427 –> 00:35:53.987
DAVE HAMILTON: You got to now set a new goal that requires willpower and motivation.

00:35:54.247 –> 00:35:54.567
DAVE HAMILTON: No.

00:35:55.047 –> 00:35:55.707
DAVE HAMILTON: Discipline.

00:35:55.887 –> 00:35:56.467
DAVE HAMILTON: Systems.

00:35:56.547 –> 00:35:59.307
DAVE HAMILTON: That’s the way to succeed because it’s consistency.

00:35:59.327 –> 00:36:00.587
DAVE HAMILTON: That’s the key.

00:36:00.767 –> 00:36:07.167
ROBONZO: Yeah, and there’s a, you know, I’ve been following a couple of communities on Facebook, which I should mention.

00:36:07.187 –> 00:36:09.187
ROBONZO: I’m probably going to look them up to make sure I get the names right.

00:36:09.207 –> 00:36:11.827
ROBONZO: But they talk a lot about music as a business.

00:36:11.867 –> 00:36:15.467
ROBONZO: And these are largely focused on original artists and songwriters.

00:36:16.267 –> 00:36:37.567
ROBONZO: But, you know, they constantly talk about music as a business and trying to help people further their careers and I think educate others as to the new way of addressing your music as a business and to, you know, be leery or at least, you know, set your expectations properly if you’re going to try and do things more traditional when there are just a lot of new things that we can do.

00:36:37.587 –> 00:36:39.887
ROBONZO: And systems obviously would be very important.

00:36:40.327 –> 00:36:43.987
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, you do need to treat it as a business at some level.

00:36:44.067 –> 00:36:48.307
DAVE HAMILTON: There’s nothing wrong with saying, I mean, I say this because I do it.

00:36:48.307 –> 00:36:49.987
DAVE HAMILTON: So that’s why I say there’s nothing wrong with it.

00:36:50.247 –> 00:36:57.387
DAVE HAMILTON: There’s nothing wrong with saying, OK, music isn’t going to be the thing upon which I rely for food on the table.

00:36:57.447 –> 00:36:57.687
DAVE HAMILTON: Right.

00:36:57.707 –> 00:37:01.307
DAVE HAMILTON: And there’s also nothing wrong with saying that it is going to be the thing that I rely on.

00:37:01.387 –> 00:37:04.267
DAVE HAMILTON: But, you know, if you choose that it’s not that thing.

00:37:04.567 –> 00:37:13.347
DAVE HAMILTON: OK, well, now you can afford to take gigs that maybe don’t pay as much but are more enjoyable or that sort of thing.

00:37:13.567 –> 00:37:18.007
DAVE HAMILTON: But you still, I feel like even then you still need to treat it like a business.

00:37:18.027 –> 00:37:25.147
DAVE HAMILTON: You need to make sure you’re treated fairly because if you’re not, the point of doing those gigs is enjoyment.

00:37:25.587 –> 00:37:29.747
DAVE HAMILTON: And if you’re not being treated well, you know, and all of that stuff, then it’s not worth it.

00:37:29.907 –> 00:37:41.467
DAVE HAMILTON: And I’ve found that free gigs tend not to, other than benefits and things like that, which are obviously sort of different, but low paying gigs often wind up not being enjoyable gigs.

00:37:41.807 –> 00:37:45.147
DAVE HAMILTON: Because if there’s not enough money on the table, there’s probably not enough people in the room.

00:37:45.647 –> 00:37:49.307
DAVE HAMILTON: And empty places generally aren’t all that much fun to play.

00:37:49.747 –> 00:37:50.527
ROBONZO: This is true.

00:37:50.647 –> 00:37:51.387
ROBONZO: This is true.

00:37:51.427 –> 00:37:53.087
ROBONZO: Totally with you 100%.

00:37:53.447 –> 00:37:54.847
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s just a good litmus test.

00:37:54.867 –> 00:37:58.067
DAVE HAMILTON: Like, can a club afford to pay, you know, 100 bucks a band member?

00:37:58.087 –> 00:38:01.087
DAVE HAMILTON: If you got a five-piece band, can you at least get 500 bucks out of them?

00:38:01.107 –> 00:38:03.607
DAVE HAMILTON: You probably should be getting about two grand out of them, right?

00:38:03.627 –> 00:38:05.667
DAVE HAMILTON: But, you know, can you at least get 500 bucks?

00:38:05.687 –> 00:38:13.247
DAVE HAMILTON: And if the answer is, well, we can pay you, you know, 150 and maybe some nachos, it’s like, yeah, I can rehearse at my house, you know.

00:38:13.807 –> 00:38:14.347
ROBONZO: Nachos?

00:38:15.027 –> 00:38:16.287
DAVE HAMILTON: I can make nachos.

00:38:16.847 –> 00:38:18.147
DAVE HAMILTON: Like the 150 bucks.

00:38:18.467 –> 00:38:22.927
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m betting that the reason you can only pay 150 bucks is there’s not many people in your club.

00:38:22.947 –> 00:38:24.807
DAVE HAMILTON: Well, you know, we’re working on building.

00:38:24.827 –> 00:38:25.127
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:38:25.147 –> 00:38:25.467
DAVE HAMILTON: OK.

00:38:25.547 –> 00:38:26.007
DAVE HAMILTON: Let me know.

00:38:27.367 –> 00:38:29.527
ROBONZO: This is a timely conversation for lots of people, I’m sure.

00:38:30.387 –> 00:38:31.207
ROBONZO: We’re running out of time.

00:38:31.227 –> 00:38:33.047
ROBONZO: There are two things I really want to talk about, so I have to pick.

00:38:33.067 –> 00:38:33.487
ROBONZO: Sure.

00:38:33.627 –> 00:38:44.987
ROBONZO: Before we got on, and maybe we’ll have time for the other one too, but before we came on to start recording, I asked you how it was going, and you mentioned something about divas, and it sounded like it would be fun to talk about, which you agreed.

00:38:45.007 –> 00:38:46.427
ROBONZO: So what has been going on?

00:38:47.687 –> 00:38:53.247
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, I can be the worst diva in the world, but in this case, it’s not me.

00:38:53.547 –> 00:39:05.507
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, I’m involved in the theater community here in the seacoast of New Hampshire, and there are always going to be divas involved in the theater community.

00:39:06.187 –> 00:39:10.347
DAVE HAMILTON: And what’s really a problem is when they wind up warring with each other.

00:39:10.427 –> 00:39:22.467
DAVE HAMILTON: And so there are really two factions warring with each other right now, and in the last three months, I’ve played music with both of them.

00:39:22.907 –> 00:39:29.307
DAVE HAMILTON: And I generally, like I said before, especially with the theater stuff, I like to just be the drummer.

00:39:29.387 –> 00:39:35.767
DAVE HAMILTON: I show up, I play the gig, I’m happy-go-lucky Dave at the gig, and then I pack up my stuff and I go home.

00:39:36.007 –> 00:39:43.107
ROBONZO: Is that mostly by the way because they have a good amount of infrastructure and can kind of handle the things that you typically like to or need to get involved with?

00:39:43.947 –> 00:39:44.787
DAVE HAMILTON: That’s it, yes.

00:39:44.867 –> 00:39:52.227
DAVE HAMILTON: If the infrastructure is not there, then I will wind up getting involved in the sound or whatever it needs to be to make sure we put on a good show.

00:39:52.527 –> 00:39:59.907
DAVE HAMILTON: But in general, theater stuff, like you said, it’s not like a four-piece band showing up at a club to play a gig.

00:39:59.927 –> 00:40:02.887
DAVE HAMILTON: There’s usually 20 people involved, right?

00:40:03.547 –> 00:40:08.267
DAVE HAMILTON: And it is usually someone’s job to make sure all the logistics are covered.

00:40:08.467 –> 00:40:09.727
DAVE HAMILTON: And so it’s really kind of nice.

00:40:09.967 –> 00:40:15.847
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, if you’re a rock musician or whatever, and you’re used to getting to a gig, I mean, at theater, I still need to set up my own stuff.

00:40:16.107 –> 00:40:17.427
DAVE HAMILTON: But I get there.

00:40:17.947 –> 00:40:23.227
DAVE HAMILTON: And like last night’s gig, I was doing a little singing, and I always use my in-ears for theater stuff because I need to hear.

00:40:23.667 –> 00:40:29.707
DAVE HAMILTON: And so, you know, I get to the gig, and the house engineer is like a capable engineer, not normal.

00:40:29.727 –> 00:40:33.527
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, like some clubs, you get guys that are, you know, pissy and whatever.

00:40:33.907 –> 00:40:37.827
DAVE HAMILTON: But in theater, they’re generally really all happy and happy to do what they’re doing.

00:40:38.287 –> 00:40:46.587
DAVE HAMILTON: And a guy comes up and he wires up my microphone for me and, you know, mics up all my drums for me, hands me an XLR, and he says, this is for your ears, you know, plugs it in.

00:40:46.927 –> 00:40:55.067
DAVE HAMILTON: And so even when you’re all just in it together, compared to a rock club gig, you often, you know, can feel far more like a rock star at a theater gig.

00:40:55.107 –> 00:40:55.987
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:40:56.007 –> 00:40:56.267
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah.

00:40:57.007 –> 00:40:58.267
DAVE HAMILTON: So I like that part of it.

00:40:58.527 –> 00:41:02.747
DAVE HAMILTON: And they’re fun and it’s challenging on a whole different level and all that.

00:41:02.767 –> 00:41:03.947
DAVE HAMILTON: But there are these two factions.

00:41:04.047 –> 00:41:17.967
DAVE HAMILTON: And last night, while I was in the middle of the gig, which was, like I said, a benefit for this one woman sort of at this one place, I started getting texts from somebody at the other, you know, and the other faction saying, oh, this is war.

00:41:17.987 –> 00:41:19.627
DAVE HAMILTON: And I’m like, I don’t want to know about the war.

00:41:20.207 –> 00:41:23.247
DAVE HAMILTON: And this guy’s like, well, but I don’t think I can play with you anymore.

00:41:23.267 –> 00:41:24.307
DAVE HAMILTON: If you’re going to play with them.

00:41:24.327 –> 00:41:28.947
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m like, well, you know, ultimatums, like, don’t play that game with me.

00:41:29.347 –> 00:41:31.327
DAVE HAMILTON: You choose whether or not to hire me.

00:41:31.687 –> 00:41:34.287
DAVE HAMILTON: And if this is one of the factors, that’s fine.

00:41:34.407 –> 00:41:36.167
DAVE HAMILTON: Like, you know, it’s fine.

00:41:36.367 –> 00:41:36.867
DAVE HAMILTON: Whatever.

00:41:37.127 –> 00:41:39.967
DAVE HAMILTON: But don’t start drawing me into your drama, man.

00:41:40.387 –> 00:41:46.647
DAVE HAMILTON: Because it’s not like I will make your life a living hell if you draw me into your drama.

00:41:46.987 –> 00:41:48.987
DAVE HAMILTON: And so I’ve been drawn in.

00:41:49.167 –> 00:41:55.747
DAVE HAMILTON: And so my day today has been dealing with that and making everyone’s life a living hell.

00:41:56.147 –> 00:42:00.767
DAVE HAMILTON: Mainly so that they never even consider drawing me in again.

00:42:01.547 –> 00:42:05.427
ROBONZO: That is an approach because, you know, this happened to me recently.

00:42:05.547 –> 00:42:09.427
ROBONZO: And I’m not in a theater situation, but I just went radio silent.

00:42:09.447 –> 00:42:10.927
ROBONZO: I’m like, I don’t have time for that.

00:42:11.027 –> 00:42:11.387
ROBONZO: Sorry.

00:42:12.707 –> 00:42:13.767
DAVE HAMILTON: Normally, that’s my thing.

00:42:13.787 –> 00:42:14.787
DAVE HAMILTON: I just ignore it.

00:42:14.947 –> 00:42:22.387
DAVE HAMILTON: But the sort of the bad and the good is I am supposed to show up on Monday back at the same theater that I did the gig last night.

00:42:23.247 –> 00:42:24.567
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m supposed to show up for a rehearsal.

00:42:24.627 –> 00:42:26.587
DAVE HAMILTON: We’re doing a musical next week.

00:42:27.187 –> 00:42:33.987
DAVE HAMILTON: And it’s like, you know, if this is going to be going on, I need to stop and think for a day about whether or not.

00:42:34.247 –> 00:42:42.407
DAVE HAMILTON: And I told them, I said, normally, I would just back off, let whatever’s going on between all of you settle out, and then I’ll reengage.

00:42:42.967 –> 00:42:44.227
DAVE HAMILTON: And I might do that.

00:42:44.447 –> 00:42:48.427
DAVE HAMILTON: But here’s the thing, if I do that, you don’t have a drummer next week.

00:42:48.927 –> 00:43:01.147
DAVE HAMILTON: And I know that’s totally it goes against every fiber of my being to bail out on any gig ever, but especially not three days before I’m supposed to show up.

00:43:01.707 –> 00:43:08.227
DAVE HAMILTON: And with all of these people that I like working with, and I know they’re relying on me, and it’ll really screw them.

00:43:08.487 –> 00:43:12.007
DAVE HAMILTON: Not that there’s not other drummers around, they might be able to find someone, but it’s short notice.

00:43:12.027 –> 00:43:13.707
DAVE HAMILTON: I get that they might not.

00:43:13.927 –> 00:43:16.587
DAVE HAMILTON: But still, it’s like, you created the scenario.

00:43:17.227 –> 00:43:18.247
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m still not…

00:43:18.407 –> 00:43:25.127
DAVE HAMILTON: I have decided that I will make this decision before today ends, but I have not made the decision yet.

00:43:25.267 –> 00:43:26.907
DAVE HAMILTON: And it’s just like, I’m just pissed.

00:43:27.187 –> 00:43:29.387
DAVE HAMILTON: They roped me into all their crap.

00:43:30.567 –> 00:43:31.867
ROBONZO: Yeah, what a pickle too.

00:43:32.327 –> 00:43:34.707
DAVE HAMILTON: And I’m pissed that they created the crap anyway.

00:43:34.827 –> 00:43:43.227
DAVE HAMILTON: I wish it didn’t happen at all, but if it’s going to happen, you need to make sure I am not aware of it, because otherwise I’m going to walk away.

00:43:43.807 –> 00:43:48.607
DAVE HAMILTON: I feel like I probably will wind up doing the gig next week, probably.

00:43:49.267 –> 00:43:59.787
DAVE HAMILTON: But I’m thinking very carefully about how to use my current position of leverage to make sure that I never am brought in again.

00:44:00.587 –> 00:44:03.467
ROBONZO: I’m not really familiar with working in theater environments.

00:44:03.767 –> 00:44:07.447
ROBONZO: Is anyone paid well or is it sort of like a music gig?

00:44:07.467 –> 00:44:07.507
ROBONZO: No.

00:44:07.527 –> 00:44:08.567
ROBONZO: Like we’re paid okay?

00:44:09.147 –> 00:44:10.687
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m paid less than a music gig.

00:44:10.707 –> 00:44:15.267
DAVE HAMILTON: So typical rock gigs I get, you know, like $100 a man is sort of the base level.

00:44:15.627 –> 00:44:19.147
DAVE HAMILTON: I started playing with what I call a money band earlier this year.

00:44:19.167 –> 00:44:23.547
DAVE HAMILTON: And so I have a gig with them on Saturday and I’ll make, I don’t know, like four or five hundred bucks or something.

00:44:24.087 –> 00:44:26.807
DAVE HAMILTON: But typical rock gigs are a hundred bucks for the gig.

00:44:27.127 –> 00:44:32.827
DAVE HAMILTON: Typical theater gigs are 50 bucks for the gig and for every sort of mandatory rehearsal.

00:44:33.387 –> 00:44:38.807
DAVE HAMILTON: So next week it would be, well, Monday through Wednesday are rehearsals and then Thursday through Sunday are gigs.

00:44:38.827 –> 00:44:40.347
DAVE HAMILTON: So I’d get 350 bucks next week.

00:44:40.487 –> 00:44:44.707
DAVE HAMILTON: So I’ll make more at my gig on Saturday with this money band than I will all of next week.

00:44:44.967 –> 00:44:45.987
DAVE HAMILTON: This ain’t about the money.

00:44:46.527 –> 00:45:08.007
ROBONZO: Well, you know, when I ask the question, it reminds me years ago when pretty early on in my time in the Bay Area, I was introduced to a percussion ensemble that had nine percussionists, two of whom, one played bass and the other one played ditch, but everyone had their hands on percussion and those who weren’t playing another instrument were, you know, hands on percussion pretty much nonstop.

00:45:08.027 –> 00:45:15.927
ROBONZO: It was well organized and it was kind of a lot of raising money in the beginning for causes, but then we were, you know, getting paid well.

00:45:16.487 –> 00:45:23.107
ROBONZO: But there always seemed to be drama when I’d walk into some of the rehearsals and somehow I became known as voice of reason or peacemaker.

00:45:23.127 –> 00:45:26.807
ROBONZO: But I think my feeling on it was like, you know, calm down.

00:45:27.007 –> 00:45:28.107
ROBONZO: You should be having fun.

00:45:28.127 –> 00:45:29.247
ROBONZO: This is really fun.

00:45:29.267 –> 00:45:31.127
ROBONZO: You should enjoy it because it won’t be here forever.

00:45:31.507 –> 00:45:32.747
ROBONZO: And typically everything was fine.

00:45:32.767 –> 00:45:34.967
ROBONZO: People just kind of like, I guess that’s right, you know.

00:45:35.547 –> 00:45:36.747
ROBONZO: But yeah, that’s great.

00:45:36.767 –> 00:45:38.307
DAVE HAMILTON: I think that’s the role of the drummer though.

00:45:38.967 –> 00:45:40.467
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, I really do.

00:45:40.687 –> 00:45:42.407
DAVE HAMILTON: And I realize in your thing, everybody was a drummer.

00:45:42.427 –> 00:45:44.067
DAVE HAMILTON: So maybe I’m wrong.

00:45:44.427 –> 00:45:53.047
DAVE HAMILTON: But it sure seems like anytime I commiserate with fellow musicians, it’s the drummers that say, yeah, I’m always, I just got to be the one that’s the voice of reason.

00:45:53.067 –> 00:45:57.007
DAVE HAMILTON: But to be fair, like on stage, that’s also our job, right?

00:45:57.307 –> 00:45:59.447
DAVE HAMILTON: In the band, a lot of times like, no, no, no, no.

00:45:59.487 –> 00:46:01.947
DAVE HAMILTON: Like, bring it right back.

00:46:02.007 –> 00:46:02.567
DAVE HAMILTON: Here we are.

00:46:02.607 –> 00:46:03.887
DAVE HAMILTON: Find the one together.

00:46:04.987 –> 00:46:05.887
DAVE HAMILTON: Play the song.

00:46:06.027 –> 00:46:06.647
DAVE HAMILTON: You know what I mean?

00:46:06.827 –> 00:46:09.087
DAVE HAMILTON: Like, we can have a lot of fun and we can go off.

00:46:09.287 –> 00:46:18.147
DAVE HAMILTON: But when it’s time, when things start going a little bit haywire, the drummer’s usually the one that’s like, all right, I’m going to hit the snare on two and four a little bit harder now.

00:46:18.427 –> 00:46:19.967
DAVE HAMILTON: We all just coming together.

00:46:19.987 –> 00:46:22.307
DAVE HAMILTON: Forget about whatever just happened.

00:46:22.647 –> 00:46:22.947
DAVE HAMILTON: Right?

00:46:22.967 –> 00:46:23.747
DAVE HAMILTON: Two, four.

00:46:23.867 –> 00:46:24.547
DAVE HAMILTON: Two, four.

00:46:25.367 –> 00:46:25.887
DAVE HAMILTON: Here we are.

00:46:28.527 –> 00:46:30.567
DAVE HAMILTON: I think that’s like the drummer’s personality.

00:46:30.807 –> 00:46:33.547
DAVE HAMILTON: If you’re going to typify the personality, that’s it.

00:46:35.307 –> 00:46:36.487
ROBONZO: You’re probably right.

00:46:36.507 –> 00:46:43.307
ROBONZO: The other thing I wanted to ask you about, because I feel recording nerdiness coming on in my not-too-distant future.

00:46:43.327 –> 00:46:44.847
ROBONZO: You do a lot of recording.

00:46:44.867 –> 00:46:46.787
ROBONZO: I know you do some session work, if not a lot.

00:46:46.807 –> 00:46:48.547
ROBONZO: You have some sort of studio at home.

00:46:48.567 –> 00:46:51.327
ROBONZO: You record at least one podcast, right?

00:46:51.347 –> 00:46:54.467
ROBONZO: But you also record drums at home from time to time?

00:46:54.847 –> 00:46:55.667
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, I do.

00:46:55.807 –> 00:46:58.067
DAVE HAMILTON: I record three podcasts here every week.

00:46:58.427 –> 00:47:01.047
DAVE HAMILTON: GigGab, The Small Business Show, and then Mac Geek Gab.

00:47:01.227 –> 00:47:03.487
DAVE HAMILTON: The last one is the one that we’ve been doing for like 12 years.

00:47:03.487 –> 00:47:04.247
DAVE HAMILTON: So I do.

00:47:04.267 –> 00:47:05.967
DAVE HAMILTON: I have a little studio here.

00:47:05.987 –> 00:47:11.107
DAVE HAMILTON: But then also in the same room, we soundproof the room, both inside and out.

00:47:11.367 –> 00:47:13.827
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s really built as a rehearsal room.

00:47:14.307 –> 00:47:17.027
DAVE HAMILTON: But I can record and have recorded here.

00:47:17.287 –> 00:47:21.587
DAVE HAMILTON: Last year, we did an EP five-song thing for Fling, the band that I mentioned.

00:47:22.167 –> 00:47:26.047
DAVE HAMILTON: And we recorded most of and mixed all of that here.

00:47:26.067 –> 00:47:29.967
DAVE HAMILTON: Some of the guitar players recorded at home or whatever, then just brought tracks over.

00:47:30.047 –> 00:47:33.327
DAVE HAMILTON: But drums and all that, yeah, we recorded that here.

00:47:33.587 –> 00:47:38.307
DAVE HAMILTON: Did it on my Mac, did it with Logic, and it went really well, actually.

00:47:38.747 –> 00:47:47.447
ROBONZO: So I, and hopefully there’s somebody listening who’s in a similar situation, but I would like to set myself up for recording drums here predominantly.

00:47:47.767 –> 00:47:56.227
ROBONZO: I would be able to record whatever with some help, you know, but I’d like to be able to record drums and collaborate with people abroad and, you know, nodding down with me.

00:47:56.847 –> 00:48:10.147
ROBONZO: What are the, kind of the similar fashion in which I asked about theory, but where would you recommend starting and where would you recommend not freaking out over too hard in the beginning to get myself set up to be able to do that?

00:48:10.327 –> 00:48:10.587
ROBONZO: Yep.

00:48:10.907 –> 00:48:15.247
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, the thing is you probably have most of what you need.

00:48:15.647 –> 00:48:27.287
DAVE HAMILTON: Most computers these days can easily track a few things just with the computer, but getting an external USB audio interface is generally the easiest way to go.

00:48:27.927 –> 00:48:35.207
DAVE HAMILTON: With drums, you’re probably going to want to do more than two tracks simultaneously because you’re going to want to record more than just kick and snare, say.

00:48:35.687 –> 00:48:40.267
DAVE HAMILTON: You might need an interface that has four inputs or maybe even eight inputs.

00:48:40.647 –> 00:48:42.807
DAVE HAMILTON: The Focusrite stuff works really well.

00:48:43.027 –> 00:48:44.747
DAVE HAMILTON: They tend to keep everything up to date.

00:48:44.767 –> 00:48:46.187
DAVE HAMILTON: They’ve been happy with their stuff.

00:48:46.467 –> 00:48:50.187
DAVE HAMILTON: And then in terms of software, you can use almost anything.

00:48:50.327 –> 00:48:57.487
DAVE HAMILTON: Reason is a cross-platform piece of software, meaning it works on both Mac and Windows, and it’s relatively inexpensive.

00:48:57.507 –> 00:49:06.147
DAVE HAMILTON: I mean, I think you can start with a 30-day trial for free, and then I think even the like totally full-blown version is like 60 bucks or 70 bucks or something.

00:49:07.247 –> 00:49:08.487
ROBONZO: I figured I would use Logic.

00:49:08.507 –> 00:49:09.547
ROBONZO: I’m a Mac Pro user.

00:49:09.827 –> 00:49:11.467
ROBONZO: And I mean, I even have GarageBand.

00:49:11.487 –> 00:49:11.947
ROBONZO: I guess I could.

00:49:12.527 –> 00:49:12.767
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:49:12.807 –> 00:49:15.247
DAVE HAMILTON: Oh, if you’re on a Mac, GarageBand is the way to start.

00:49:15.467 –> 00:49:21.427
DAVE HAMILTON: And it is a relatively seamless transition to Logic from there.

00:49:21.667 –> 00:49:22.387
DAVE HAMILTON: But that’s absolutely…

00:49:22.407 –> 00:49:24.467
DAVE HAMILTON: If you’ve got a Mac, GarageBand is the way to start.

00:49:24.787 –> 00:49:28.007
DAVE HAMILTON: Plug in, you know, whatever you’re going to do in terms of a USB.

00:49:28.127 –> 00:49:31.607
DAVE HAMILTON: You’re probably going to want some kind of an external interface, you know, to get started.

00:49:32.007 –> 00:49:35.907
DAVE HAMILTON: But you can, for a couple of channels, you can do that for less than 100 bucks.

00:49:36.267 –> 00:49:37.247
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, I just got this…

00:49:37.767 –> 00:49:39.307
DAVE HAMILTON: They call it an 18-channel thing.

00:49:39.327 –> 00:49:41.207
DAVE HAMILTON: Really, it’s got eight XLR inputs.

00:49:41.287 –> 00:49:44.207
DAVE HAMILTON: They call it 18 because they add all these things that nobody ever uses.

00:49:44.867 –> 00:49:47.987
DAVE HAMILTON: But, you know, I think that was like 300 bucks or something.

00:49:48.247 –> 00:49:52.887
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s not, you know, huge break the bank, you know, $5,000 setup or anything.

00:49:52.907 –> 00:49:53.407
ROBONZO: What was that?

00:49:53.427 –> 00:49:54.807
ROBONZO: What was that specific piece of gear?

00:49:55.287 –> 00:49:58.427
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, so the specific piece of gear is it’s from Focusrite.

00:49:58.487 –> 00:50:01.327
DAVE HAMILTON: And I have the Scarlett 18i20.

00:50:01.347 –> 00:50:03.167
ROBONZO: Scarlett 18i20?

00:50:03.267 –> 00:50:03.527
DAVE HAMILTON: Yep.

00:50:03.727 –> 00:50:11.887
DAVE HAMILTON: And it’s got two headphone outputs and eight XLR jacks on it that, you know, really kind of allows you to open up and record things simultaneously.

00:50:12.227 –> 00:50:19.047
DAVE HAMILTON: And then my advice is to just like plug it in and start recording and playing around with it before.

00:50:19.327 –> 00:50:21.647
DAVE HAMILTON: If you’ve got a project to do, fine, you know, great.

00:50:21.987 –> 00:50:26.167
DAVE HAMILTON: But I would start doing it before you have a project to do to just learn.

00:50:26.767 –> 00:50:38.707
DAVE HAMILTON: Because that in terms of that stuff, I think the best thing to do is play at home, you know, learn enough to learn where you’re having problems, where your, you know, knowledge shortfalls are.

00:50:39.087 –> 00:50:40.987
DAVE HAMILTON: And then go watch YouTube videos.

00:50:41.087 –> 00:50:47.347
DAVE HAMILTON: Or if you want to get really advanced, sign up for like a lynda.com subscription, L-Y-N-D-A.

00:50:47.627 –> 00:50:50.507
DAVE HAMILTON: And they’ve got some great tutorials on stuff there.

00:50:50.527 –> 00:50:53.827
DAVE HAMILTON: And you can see what tutorials they have before you sign up for a subscription too.

00:50:53.867 –> 00:50:54.687
DAVE HAMILTON: So, yeah.

00:50:54.707 –> 00:50:54.907
ROBONZO: Cool.

00:50:54.907 –> 00:50:55.467
ROBONZO: Good advice.

00:50:55.467 –> 00:51:09.347
ROBONZO: And I hear firsthand from Mike Dawson that he is actually wanting to, I don’t know how close he is, but he wants to, on his YouTube channel, create a place for, you know, education on recording, which will be really cool for people.

00:51:09.367 –> 00:51:11.667
ROBONZO: So if you are not watching him, he might be a good guy to watch.

00:51:11.687 –> 00:51:13.507
ROBONZO: Anyone who’s listening that wants to do the same.

00:51:13.847 –> 00:51:14.187
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah.

00:51:14.727 –> 00:51:16.807
DAVE HAMILTON: Mike and Mike do a good job with that MD podcast.

00:51:16.807 –> 00:51:21.027
DAVE HAMILTON: They are consummate educators, really, really skilled at that.

00:51:21.027 –> 00:51:21.647
ROBONZO: They are.

00:51:22.067 –> 00:51:25.247
ROBONZO: And I haven’t even asked Johnston yet.

00:51:25.407 –> 00:51:30.367
ROBONZO: He’s a little more intimidating to me for some reason, which is hilarious because he’s, you know, kind of technically my drum teacher.

00:51:30.387 –> 00:51:33.367
ROBONZO: But Mike Johnson is just like such a nice guy about coming on.

00:51:33.387 –> 00:51:34.147
ROBONZO: It’s like, yeah, let’s do it.

00:51:34.527 –> 00:51:35.907
ROBONZO: And he was real fun to talk to.

00:51:35.927 –> 00:51:39.507
ROBONZO: And I’d actually been chatting with him on Facebook, often on about stuff.

00:51:39.527 –> 00:51:41.267
ROBONZO: So he’s really nice, open guy.

00:51:41.267 –> 00:51:41.767
ROBONZO: That’s great.

00:51:41.887 –> 00:51:43.027
ROBONZO: And Mike Johnson is too.

00:51:43.047 –> 00:51:44.147
ROBONZO: I just scared to ask.

00:51:44.167 –> 00:51:45.447
DAVE HAMILTON: I know.

00:51:45.467 –> 00:51:45.947
DAVE HAMILTON: I get it.

00:51:46.467 –> 00:51:55.407
DAVE HAMILTON: Listen, man, when it comes to like asking people to be guests on the podcast and stuff, we all have that or I certainly have, you know, that fear of.

00:51:56.007 –> 00:51:59.287
DAVE HAMILTON: I think it’s the simultaneous fear of success and failure, right?

00:51:59.307 –> 00:52:05.847
DAVE HAMILTON: Because if somebody says, no, you’re disappointed, especially if there’s someone that you look up to and it would be a really great interview or whatever it is.

00:52:06.187 –> 00:52:09.967
DAVE HAMILTON: But when somebody says, yes, like that’s petrifying because it’s like, oh, crap.

00:52:10.287 –> 00:52:14.947
DAVE HAMILTON: Now I’ve got to seem like not like an idiot when I talk to this person for an hour.

00:52:14.967 –> 00:52:17.887
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, so, yep, so I get it.

00:52:17.887 –> 00:52:18.907
DAVE HAMILTON: I totally get it.

00:52:19.167 –> 00:52:23.087
DAVE HAMILTON: When we asked Kenny Aronoff to be on, that was a total lark.

00:52:23.087 –> 00:52:24.847
DAVE HAMILTON: I had never talked to the guy before in my life.

00:52:25.347 –> 00:52:26.807
DAVE HAMILTON: Paul and I finished a show.

00:52:27.147 –> 00:52:29.927
DAVE HAMILTON: And for whatever reason, Kenny’s name was in my head.

00:52:29.947 –> 00:52:32.647
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, we finished recording just one of our normal episodes.

00:52:33.167 –> 00:52:34.527
DAVE HAMILTON: And I sent Kenny an email.

00:52:34.807 –> 00:52:35.647
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m like, screw it.

00:52:35.647 –> 00:52:36.467
DAVE HAMILTON: I’m just going to ask.

00:52:36.787 –> 00:52:45.167
DAVE HAMILTON: Within an hour, I had an email back from his coordinator, you know, his social coordinator, whatever it is, saying, Kenny got your note.

00:52:45.187 –> 00:52:46.247
DAVE HAMILTON: He’s on the way to the airport.

00:52:46.827 –> 00:52:52.047
DAVE HAMILTON: He wants to be on the show, but he’s, you know, flying to Germany to play a gig with Fogarty.

00:52:52.067 –> 00:52:53.187
DAVE HAMILTON: This was like a Wednesday afternoon.

00:52:53.527 –> 00:52:54.447
DAVE HAMILTON: Play a gig with Fogarty.

00:52:54.467 –> 00:53:01.607
DAVE HAMILTON: But then, like as soon as the gig ends, he’s flying back because he’s got to sign, you know, autographs at a book thing on Saturday.

00:53:01.987 –> 00:53:04.547
DAVE HAMILTON: And I’m reading this like, okay, so it’s going to be like three weeks.

00:53:04.747 –> 00:53:06.567
DAVE HAMILTON: And she’s like, but he’s totally open next week.

00:53:08.387 –> 00:53:09.407
ROBONZO: And then you’re like, oh crap.

00:53:09.787 –> 00:53:10.327
DAVE HAMILTON: Crap.

00:53:10.607 –> 00:53:11.867
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, exactly.

00:53:12.107 –> 00:53:13.947
DAVE HAMILTON: So I wrote her back and I’m like, how’s Monday sound?

00:53:13.967 –> 00:53:17.847
DAVE HAMILTON: She’s like, no, he’s now he’s booked on Monday, but he can do Tuesday at whatever at that time.

00:53:17.907 –> 00:53:18.807
DAVE HAMILTON: Like, yeah, great.

00:53:18.907 –> 00:53:19.267
DAVE HAMILTON: Fine.

00:53:19.347 –> 00:53:19.827
DAVE HAMILTON: Sign him up.

00:53:19.847 –> 00:53:20.247
DAVE HAMILTON: Let’s go.

00:53:20.487 –> 00:53:21.867
DAVE HAMILTON: And then it was like panic.

00:53:22.027 –> 00:53:23.727
DAVE HAMILTON: What are we going to talk to him about?

00:53:23.747 –> 00:53:24.227
DAVE HAMILTON: I have no idea.

00:53:24.247 –> 00:53:25.307
DAVE HAMILTON: And of course, the interview went great.

00:53:25.327 –> 00:53:26.307
DAVE HAMILTON: It was totally fine.

00:53:26.327 –> 00:53:28.307
DAVE HAMILTON: You know, people people like to talk.

00:53:28.327 –> 00:53:33.107
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s not it’s really not that hard, but it’s so hard to remember that in the moment.

00:53:33.727 –> 00:53:34.587
ROBONZO: Yeah, I know.

00:53:34.607 –> 00:53:39.207
ROBONZO: I’ve had a couple of those moments already in talking to people and some that are coming up.

00:53:39.227 –> 00:53:44.787
ROBONZO: And one of them was actually with a really good friend, but he’s like in the total rock star scene.

00:53:44.807 –> 00:53:48.787
ROBONZO: And the funny thing is we did a recording and it was my first and I had issues.

00:53:48.807 –> 00:53:50.207
ROBONZO: And I said, I can’t use the recording.

00:53:50.207 –> 00:53:53.787
ROBONZO: So now he’s tied up with a new release.

00:53:53.807 –> 00:53:58.367
ROBONZO: And so he’s been very gracious about, well, you know, he actually enjoyed it and thought it went really well.

00:53:58.727 –> 00:54:01.947
ROBONZO: I just told him the audio was really, you know, crappy.

00:54:01.967 –> 00:54:03.367
ROBONZO: So anyway, we’ll see.

00:54:03.387 –> 00:54:07.067
DAVE HAMILTON: Hopefully he’ll that that sucks when that I’ve been in that scenario.

00:54:07.087 –> 00:54:09.187
DAVE HAMILTON: It’s like, oh, that was a perfect show.

00:54:09.687 –> 00:54:10.507
ROBONZO: Oh, yeah.

00:54:10.647 –> 00:54:12.867
ROBONZO: Oh, well, hey, well, learn my lesson.

00:54:12.887 –> 00:54:13.787
ROBONZO: I was ready the next time.

00:54:14.667 –> 00:54:15.247
DAVE HAMILTON: Totally.

00:54:15.347 –> 00:54:15.767
DAVE HAMILTON: That’s right.

00:54:15.887 –> 00:54:19.047
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, sometimes we can read all about those mistakes.

00:54:19.067 –> 00:54:23.967
DAVE HAMILTON: But man, until you experience the pain firsthand, you don’t really know.

00:54:24.947 –> 00:54:28.447
ROBONZO: Well, Dave, thank you so much for spending time with me today.

00:54:28.467 –> 00:54:31.407
ROBONZO: I want to respect your time and let you get back to your theater drama.

00:54:31.427 –> 00:54:33.607
ROBONZO: I have to sort that out before dinner.

00:54:33.627 –> 00:54:36.527
ROBONZO: Thanks.

00:54:36.547 –> 00:54:42.147
ROBONZO: Where can people best find you online if they want to check out the podcast or anything else you’re doing?

00:54:42.327 –> 00:54:47.127
DAVE HAMILTON: Yeah, so the easiest home to point you towards is Twitter at twitter.com/davehamilton.

00:54:47.427 –> 00:54:51.707
DAVE HAMILTON: But GigGab Podcast on Twitter and also on Facebook.

00:54:51.927 –> 00:54:54.827
DAVE HAMILTON: businessshow.co is our small business show.

00:54:54.847 –> 00:55:00.127
DAVE HAMILTON: And then Mac Geek Gab is the other podcast I do for kind of Q&A for Apple users.

00:55:00.387 –> 00:55:00.787
ROBONZO: Cool.

00:55:01.687 –> 00:55:03.307
ROBONZO: That’s a lot of stuff for them to check out.

00:55:03.407 –> 00:55:04.067
ROBONZO: Again, thank you.

00:55:04.087 –> 00:55:06.807
ROBONZO: And there was plenty more for us to talk about.

00:55:06.827 –> 00:55:08.467
ROBONZO: So we may do a round two here one of these days.

00:55:08.927 –> 00:55:09.367
DAVE HAMILTON: Sounds good.

00:55:09.727 –> 00:55:10.427
DAVE HAMILTON: Thanks for having me.

00:55:10.487 –> 00:55:10.607
ROBONZO: Be safe.

00:55:10.647 –> 00:55:11.007
ROBONZO: Take care.

00:55:22.127 –> 00:55:22.387
ROBONZO: Thank.

00:55:22.387 –> 00:55:23.680
ROBONZO: Hey, this is Robanzo.

00:55:23.860 –> 00:55:25.620
ROBONZO: Thanks so much for listening.

00:55:25.960 –> 00:55:27.240
ROBONZO: Did you know I’m also an author?

00:55:27.800 –> 00:55:35.900
ROBONZO: Check out my book, The Unstarving Musician’s Guide to Getting Paid Gigs, How to Get Booked and Paid What You’re Worth Over and Over Again, available on Amazon.

00:55:36.420 –> 00:55:42.100
ROBONZO: And the book is also available in audio format as The Unstarving Musician’s Guide Podcast.

00:55:42.380 –> 00:55:44.640
ROBONZO: Check it out wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

00:55:45.140 –> 00:55:50.740
ROBONZO: Last but not least, are you a gigging musician, recording artist, songwriter, or touring professional?

00:55:50.920 –> 00:55:55.060
ROBONZO: Or perhaps struggling to get your music out to the world, struggling to get the gigs you want?

00:55:55.600 –> 00:55:59.560
ROBONZO: Pop over to unstarvingmusician.com and sign up for my email list.

00:55:59.960 –> 00:56:08.760
ROBONZO: I’ll send you an occasional email with tips, expert advice, music, musician resources, and anything else I come across that might make your journey better and brighter.

00:56:09.340 –> 00:56:12.160
ROBONZO: With much gratitude, peace, love, and more cowbell.