Transcript auto-generated by Apple Podcasts

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ROBONZO: Welcome to another episode of The Unstarving Musician.

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ROBONZO: I am Robonzo.

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ROBONZO: This is my podcast and it features interviews with independent musicians, artists and creative professionals who share their expertise on recording, touring gigs, the creative process, marketing and more.

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ROBONZO: I also occasionally drop some solo episodes that focus on themes from my conversations, research and off mic interviews.

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ROBONZO: This podcast is intended to help independent creatives better understand all the things that go into making work that we love, work that matters.

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ROBONZO: Today on the podcast, we’re talking about something that trips up a lot of independent artists, booking shows and building a sustainable touring career.

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ROBONZO: My guest for the conversation is Christal Hector, founder and CEO of TuneHatch, a booking and ticketing platform for independent venues and artists.

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ROBONZO: But what makes this conversation valuable isn’t the platform, it’s where Christal’s insight comes from.

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ROBONZO: We’ll get to that in a minute.

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ROBONZO: But a friend, I want to tell you, asked me about an EPK for his band and website.

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ROBONZO: I provide support for his website, his band’s website, and decided, why not create an EPK template he could use.

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ROBONZO: And well, lucky listener, I’ve uploaded it to the LinerNotes Resource Library.

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ROBONZO: If you are interested in getting this EPK template for your band or solo act, sign up for LinerNotes and send me a note saying you want the template.

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ROBONZO: LinerNotes is free and you’ll need only reply to the first or any subsequent email you get from me to ask for the template with your LinerNotes subscription.

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ROBONZO: And if you’ve not heard me say it in past episodes, LinerNotes subscribers get bi-weekly emails from yours truly and they include insights from 300 plus conversations with working artists who figured out how to make sustainable living from their creativity delivered straight to your inbox.

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ROBONZO: So yeah, go to unstarvingmusician.com/linernotes or visit the show notes for this episode.

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ROBONZO: There will be a link there.

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ROBONZO: Again, after signing up, just send me a note to ask for the EPK template and I’ll send it to you right away.

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ROBONZO: Both linernotes and the template are free and you can unsubscribe at any time.

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ROBONZO: TuneHatch, co-founded by Christal Hector, my guest today, was built with a venue’s first approach.

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ROBONZO: Before they created any tools for artists, they focused on solving problems for venue owners and bookers.

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ROBONZO: That meant Christal had spent years understanding what venues actually look for when they evaluate artists, what makes them say yes to booking someone, and what behaviors make artists easy or impossible to work with.

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ROBONZO: She’s also on the National Independent Venue Association’s Industry Affairs Committee.

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ROBONZO: Man, that’s a mouthful.

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ROBONZO: So she’s seeing patterns across the entire independent venue ecosystem nationwide in the United States, probably beyond too.

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ROBONZO: Not just what’s happening in one city or region.

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ROBONZO: And before all of that, she was a songwriter.

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ROBONZO: In our conversation, Christal and I dig into the frameworks behind successful booking and touring, what the venue’s mental checklist is when an artist reaches out, what proof points actually matter beyond social media follower accounts, how do you approach booking systematically instead of just throwing pitches into the void, and what makes touring financially and energetically sustainable versus money losing burnout machine.

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ROBONZO: We also talk about the stuff most business resources don’t cover, like the emotional and energy drain of touring, why you need a support network, and how to think about your tour profitability before you commit to dates.

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ROBONZO: Whether you’re trying to book your first tour or you’ve been doing this for years but struggling to make it work, this conversation gives you the venue insider perspective most artists never get.

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ROBONZO: And now, here is me talking to Christal Hector of TuneHatch.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: I am in Nashville.

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ROBONZO: Full time?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yeah.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: I’ve been here for a couple of years now.

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ROBONZO: Oh.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: New home.

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ROBONZO: Where were you before?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: I was born and raised in South Florida.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Then I came here for school and basically never left.

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ROBONZO: Where did you go to school?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: I went to Vanderbilt.

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ROBONZO: All right.

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ROBONZO: Sounds like a fancy school.

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ROBONZO: I don’t know that much about it, but I’ve heard the name so many times.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: They’ve been doing a lot better in sports these days, so that might be why.

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ROBONZO: Well, I’m old too.

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ROBONZO: They’ve always been like a name that I’m familiar with, but doing well in sports, I imagine, helps.

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ROBONZO: What did you study there?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: I studied economics actually, and they didn’t have a minor in music business, but I took every music business course there was.

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ROBONZO: Oh, that’s cool.

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ROBONZO: So both of your parents are from Jamaica?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yep, both of them.

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ROBONZO: That’s cool.

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ROBONZO: I’ve never been.

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ROBONZO: Do you go there?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Not as much as I would like to.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: I’ve been there about four times.

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ROBONZO: You got time to go back.

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ROBONZO: Yeah, my fingers are off.

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ROBONZO: You’re a songwriter, right?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yeah.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So before I started working on TuneHatch, my whole goal, a big part of why I decided on Vanderbilt as a school, is because it was in Nashville, Tennessee, and I really, really wanted to get published as a songwriter.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: It’s like I was not blessed with the gift of being able to sing well, but I felt pretty good about my writing skills.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So I was going to these BMI rounds where you could pitch your song, and just met a lot of independent artists along the way when I was trying to get published, and that’s eventually what led to TuneHatch being formed.

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ROBONZO: You guys started in 2019, right?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: That’s officially when we incorporated, but we launched in 2023.

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ROBONZO: Wow, fledgling.

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ROBONZO: I haven’t talked to anyone in a long time that’s done rounds like what you just described.

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ROBONZO: So is that kind of a little bit in the rearview mirror at the moment, or do you still write music, write songs?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: My full attention is TuneHatch.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: How can I help other artists succeed?

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ROBONZO: I can understand that.

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ROBONZO: It sounds like a big undertaking from what I understand.

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ROBONZO: So yeah, I can get that.

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ROBONZO: But hey, who knows?

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ROBONZO: You might find yourself with a wee bit of spare time and inspiration in the future.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: I hope so, honestly.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: It was a lot of fun.

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ROBONZO: All right.

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ROBONZO: So you started TuneHatch, and correct me if I’m wrong, fact check me, whatever.

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ROBONZO: But you started TuneHatch by working with venues first, not artists, if I understand it right.

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ROBONZO: What did that teach you about what venues actually want from artists that most artists completely miss?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yeah.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: A lot of artists feel like venues are gatekeepers.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: They’re cherry picking the artists that they want to succeed and cutting out all the rest.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: But from working with venues across the country, we’ve found that the opposite is actually true.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: The vast majority of venues want to bring in new faces.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: They want to bring in talented artists and they want the nights to do well.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: But not every artist makes it easy for venues to say yes.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So it really requires a mindset shift for these artists to understand what are venues actually looking for?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: What does a successful night mean to a venue?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And when they get that, booking becomes so much more straightforward and easy.

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ROBONZO: So the one that jumped out at me there, because I’d love to hear your words, given your experience, but what does a successful night look like, a successful night look like to a venue?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: For a venue, there are two main questions they’re asking, which tells them this night will probably be successful.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So the first question is, can this artist draw a crowd that’s the appropriate size for my venue?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And the second question is, will this artist be easy to work with?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And if an artist can check off those two boxes, they increase their chances of being booked by tenants.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So a lot of artists, when they make the approach to venues, there are a couple of mistakes that make it hard for them to check those boxes.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So the first one that’s related to that first box, can this artist draw a crowd to my venue?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: A lot of artists don’t provide that proof of demand upfront.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So oftentimes, they’ll email a venue saying, hi, I love your venue.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: I’d love to play on XYZ date.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Is that date available?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And oftentimes, that’s just not enough information for the venue to work with.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: What they want to see up front is, have you played venues similar to theirs?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Similar size, similar vibe, and how big was the crowd that you’re able to draw to those venues?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Or at the very least, if it’s not a hard ticketed show, what was the bar sales at the end of the night like?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: That information really tells them, okay, was this artist economically viable for the venue?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Because at the end of the day, as much as venue owners are often former musicians and they really love the craft, you know, and want artists to do well, they’re also running small businesses so that the economics of it are really high on their priority list when it comes to having a successful night.

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ROBONZO: You’ve probably seen hundreds or thousands of artists book through your platform.

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ROBONZO: What do the artists who tour successfully and sustainably do different from those who struggle?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: A lot of the artists, like we actually did interviews with hundreds of artists who have used our platform, you know, prior to building out our tour builder functionality because to your question, we really wanted to understand what were those main struggles and what was the difference between the artists who did well and those who didn’t quite feel confident in touring.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And so what it mainly came down to was how do they make their tours more profitable, right?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And how do they make the process of building out their tour more efficient?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So less admin heavy, something that doesn’t totally drain their energy and take it away from the creative process.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So, you know, on the side of making the tour more profitable, I would say it really comes down to touring in a way that lets you cut out major expenses when possible.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And one of the biggest expenses is lodging.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So a couple of things artists who are successful do, is they’ll do something called what we like to call a daisy tour.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So, you know, a daisy is a flower and the petals start at the center, they go out and then they come back to the center.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So the idea is an artist will start touring by going out to cities that are within driving distance of their hometown so they can come home each night, cutting out the need for additional lodging costs.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So that in and of itself makes tours significantly more profitable.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And when it comes to, you know, cutting out things like admin work, when an artist is trying to book multiple shows, they have to do a lot of outreach.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: 80 to 90 percent of what an artist would send to any given venue is going to be the same across all the venues they’re going to reach out to.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And so, you know, something that artists don’t always think about is, instead of rewriting the same email outreach in different ways every single time, you know, of course, you do want to show the venue, you did your research, you care about them, and you’re specifically reaching out to them, but because they’re a good fit, with the things that are just standard, like if I were to say, I’m based in Nashville, life played on Broadway, I don’t need to find a hundred ways to say that.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: I can say that in the same way every single time, and it works across states.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So really creating those templates that allow them to do their outreach a lot faster, with like less of an energy toll each time, which lets them do more and put more time into their craft and the artsy parts.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: You know, of course, most musicians prefer to the business side of things.

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ROBONZO: Sure.

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ROBONZO: And to remind us all that customizing these messages are important as well.

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ROBONZO: And I completely, 100 percent, get the value of using the template pieces.

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ROBONZO: What are maybe just some practical tips for items that they might want to customize, and also any trick that keeps them from accidentally sending something out they didn’t mean to, because it was kind of remnant of a template.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yeah, no, for sure.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Definitely read your emails before you send them out.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: But as far as what the content of the outreach looks like, I would highly suggest that musicians use things like EPKs or electronic press kits.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: You know, a one-stop shop that has the bio, it has your social links, your music, any press materials like media, photos, things of that nature that most venues will ask for anyway.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So it gives you the opportunity to present that upfront in a way that is uniquely you as an artist.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So it’s also you shaping what you look like to the venue, instead of them trying to figure that out on their own.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And so that’s a piece that regardless of which venue you’re sending it to, it’s the same item.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So you wouldn’t have to worry about not wanting to send that to one venue and sending it to another.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: As far as other pieces that need to be customized, definitely the dates, the dates you’re asking about should be based on what you see available on a venue’s calendar.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: It means a lot to a venue when you’re not asking for a date that is clearly booked.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So really basic things like that.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Templatize where you can, but always show that you did your research on that venue, and you specifically are reaching out to them because you think that they are a uniquely good fit.

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ROBONZO: I personally am guilty of doing things like this when I’m in a hurry, and I think I have a little bit of nervous energy that’s always with me, and I just want to hurry for no good reason, but I would probably just add that like stepping away from the keyboard right before you click send is probably a good idea to just think about what you’ve written, and maybe take one last look at it.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: A hundred percent.

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ROBONZO: Walk me through what a venue owner’s actually looking at when an artist reaches out.

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ROBONZO: Like what is their evaluation process?

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ROBONZO: We talked about, you mentioned a couple of things, like can they draw, and my mind’s blanking on the other one.

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ROBONZO: But are there other sort of things that we should know about?

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ROBONZO: Or maybe they don’t happen all the time, but sometimes?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yeah, I definitely say can you draw and are you easy to work with are the two most important things.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So if those two boxes are not checked, yes, it’s going to be pretty hard for an artist to get booked in a venue.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: But outside of that, I would say any indicators of professionalism and organization.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So what I mean by that is something like an EPK, which shows you put effort into how you’re presenting yourself.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Or even something beyond that, that a lot of artists don’t think about is coming with your lineup already booked.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So when you present a venue, me and two or three other artists or bands would be playing together on this night that I’m requesting.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: What a venue thinks is, oh, okay, so this artist has already thought about how the show is going to go, how the draw metrics, right?

00:16:44.540 –> 00:16:46.060
CHRISTAL HECTOR: How you fill the room.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Venues don’t want to have to worry about that two weeks out from the show.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: So if you’re coming up front with that information, they feel a sense of relief in a sense that this artist really has a handle on the show and they’re going to make it successful.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: They view it as a partnership, not as, you know, just getting an opportunity in the venue doing all the work on the back end.

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ROBONZO: What are three things an artist can do in the initial outreach that immediately separates them from everyone else?

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: I guess it definitely includes the information they’re looking for up front.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Please do not be the artist that just says, you have a cool venue and I would love to play this date.

00:17:29.760 –> 00:17:32.800
CHRISTAL HECTOR: They get those kinds of emails all the time.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: And really what that’s doing is it’s forcing them to do more work, which a lot of them just won’t do.

00:17:39.800 –> 00:17:41.800
CHRISTAL HECTOR: They won’t respond for that reason.

00:17:41.800 –> 00:17:51.240
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So be upfront with the things you know that they’re looking for and you’re already going to be ahead of half the artists who are asking about dates.

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CHRISTAL HECTOR: Aside from that, definitely come to line up if you can.

00:17:55.360 –> 00:18:07.780
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And if you have played at that particular venue or similar venues before, that will be a big plus in terms of you getting books again.

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ROBONZO: The things we’ve talked about so far sound largely applicable to just booking local gigs too.

00:18:14.720 –> 00:18:17.340
ROBONZO: You know, just the interaction part.

00:18:17.340 –> 00:18:23.660
ROBONZO: So as you alluded, venues are busy trying to make money and keep their business open, right?

00:18:23.660 –> 00:18:40.340
ROBONZO: And what equation are they running when they evaluate whether to book an artist beyond maybe social media followers and sometimes I suspect maybe that doesn’t always matter as much as an artist might think.

00:18:40.340 –> 00:18:45.040
ROBONZO: Are there any other proof points that could kind of move the needle in the artist’s favor?

00:18:45.040 –> 00:18:53.040
CHRISTAL HECTOR: You know, when it comes to venues economics, the main driver for them is how many people are coming through the door.

00:18:53.040 –> 00:19:03.540
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So if you can show them that you’re going to get a reasonable number of people through the door where the night is profitable for them, they’re going to be super happy to have you.

00:19:03.540 –> 00:19:15.480
CHRISTAL HECTOR: The main way they evaluate that, social media followers is great, engagement is great, having a good sounding, good talent, all of that is important.

00:19:15.480 –> 00:19:21.280
CHRISTAL HECTOR: But the most important thing above that is, what is your show history, right?

00:19:21.280 –> 00:19:37.940
CHRISTAL HECTOR: If the venue can see that you’ve done well at similar venues to theirs, they’re much more likely to trust that as an indicator that you will bring people to their venue than markers like talent or social media.

00:19:37.940 –> 00:19:57.340
CHRISTAL HECTOR: For any artists, they should definitely prioritize demonstrating what have they done in the past, how have they shown the ability to bring fans out to the show in the past, and venues will be very excited about anyone who can bring a decent number of people into their establishment.

00:19:57.340 –> 00:20:06.940
ROBONZO: It’s probably fair to say that a lot of artists treat booking like a shot in the dark based on common emails that they, venues might receive.

00:20:06.940 –> 00:20:21.680
ROBONZO: But if you were trying to explain a systematic approach, what a systematic approach looks like to landing good venues, what would be some actual steps that you would highlight?

00:20:22.560 –> 00:20:27.440
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yeah, I’d say first definitely apply primarily to the venues that are good fit for you.

00:20:27.440 –> 00:20:39.000
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So one area in which a lot of artists spend a lot of energy that doesn’t always pan out is they’re reaching out to venues that are just not the right size for where they are in their career.

00:20:39.000 –> 00:20:51.120
CHRISTAL HECTOR: It leads to not just the energy of the outreach, but also emotionally a lot of artists feel bad when a venue doesn’t respond or responds negatively, or just says no, right?

00:20:51.120 –> 00:20:56.760
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Which I guess is not necessarily negative, but it just kind of is the reality of the situation.

00:20:56.760 –> 00:20:59.140
ROBONZO: It’s negative to an artist, right?

00:20:59.140 –> 00:21:01.220
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Exactly.

00:21:01.220 –> 00:21:05.860
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So starting off with, are you applying to the right venues, right?

00:21:05.860 –> 00:21:16.020
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Cutting that list down to the right fit is a great way to hone in your energy on the places that are probably going to actually pan out.

00:21:16.840 –> 00:21:20.960
CHRISTAL HECTOR: We talked a little bit about saving time with templates as well.

00:21:20.960 –> 00:21:26.080
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So that’s part of systemization, building your social proof, showing that you’ve performed before.

00:21:26.080 –> 00:21:28.620
CHRISTAL HECTOR: We talked about that show history element.

00:21:28.620 –> 00:21:31.680
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And on top of that, I would say track everything.

00:21:31.680 –> 00:21:54.540
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So a lot of the artists you work with, they have Excel sheets, they use TuneHatch, they have different resources they use to track how many shows they’re playing, who they played with, information about any new songs they’ve released, just important pieces of information that helps them track the progress of their career.

00:21:54.540 –> 00:22:06.800
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Because venues do ask for that information, and instead of trying to figure that out on the fly, these artists simply reach into whatever they’re using to track and pull that information out.

00:22:06.800 –> 00:22:10.300
CHRISTAL HECTOR: No stress, super easy, everything is current.

00:22:12.440 –> 00:22:20.180
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And maybe I would just add to that, music is a creative endeavor, you know.

00:22:20.180 –> 00:22:26.200
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And I think for a lot of artists, the business side of things feels like the antithesis of creativity.

00:22:27.300 –> 00:22:38.280
CHRISTAL HECTOR: But we found that the artists who do best are the ones who are able to both invest in their creative side, but also put similar energy into the business side of things.

00:22:40.120 –> 00:22:43.320
ROBONZO: I’ve written a lot about that and talked to different people about that.

00:22:43.320 –> 00:22:53.540
ROBONZO: And yeah, by and large, I think people are not, artists are not crazy about that particular facet of the systems, all the admin work, if you will.

00:22:53.540 –> 00:23:06.760
ROBONZO: But would you agree and maybe add to the recommendation of just segmenting the time, meaning like, you know, have your creative time, but have your separate admin time and even an admin work environment?

00:23:09.340 –> 00:23:13.520
CHRISTAL HECTOR: 100%, 100%, like balance is super important to both.

00:23:13.520 –> 00:23:15.060
CHRISTAL HECTOR: It’s kind of like a yin and a yang.

00:23:15.060 –> 00:23:18.260
CHRISTAL HECTOR: They’re both necessary to make it work.

00:23:18.260 –> 00:23:22.620
ROBONZO: I have a friend who’s a lifelong, feels like a lifelong touring artist.

00:23:22.620 –> 00:23:25.660
ROBONZO: And he probably has some balance that’s hidden from me.

00:23:25.660 –> 00:23:26.620
ROBONZO: And I don’t see him very often.

00:23:26.620 –> 00:23:31.720
ROBONZO: I’ll see he’s coming, you know, like he’ll come to town once a year and we’ll, we’ll do some shows together.

00:23:31.720 –> 00:23:32.820
ROBONZO: I’ll play drums for him.

00:23:33.160 –> 00:23:45.560
ROBONZO: And yeah, I see him a lot of off time just sort of slouched over on the laptop doing the, basically, you know, the booking and various other sort of admin, non-creative, you know, music things.

00:23:46.600 –> 00:23:47.720
ROBONZO: But I guess I just bring it up.

00:23:47.720 –> 00:23:56.620
ROBONZO: I’m kind of curious how he or if he really segments it very diligently or just like, I’ve got a free moment, I got to do this, which, you know, sometimes that makes sense.

00:23:56.680 –> 00:24:10.360
ROBONZO: But yeah, it seems seems like it’s good to just, I mean, I mean, the other thing is to, I guess, if you’re on the road a lot as he is, trying to control the different work environments is kind of tough.

00:24:10.360 –> 00:24:21.860
ROBONZO: So you have to have some, I would imagine some really small cues that maybe you carry around with you or something to just sort of makeshift a different environment that gets you out of one mindset and into the other for a little while.

00:24:21.920 –> 00:24:27.220
CHRISTAL HECTOR: For sure, I wouldn’t say that it’s a straightforward one-size-fits-all process.

00:24:27.800 –> 00:24:36.840
CHRISTAL HECTOR: It kind of comes down to who are you as a person, what’s your work schedule like, and just finding the time in a way that works for you.

00:24:36.840 –> 00:24:46.280
ROBONZO: If an artist is starting from zero book shows, what should the first 90 days of systematic booking activity look like?

00:24:46.280 –> 00:24:54.660
CHRISTAL HECTOR: If an artist is just starting out, I would say the first piece of it is try to play as much as you can.

00:24:54.660 –> 00:25:02.880
CHRISTAL HECTOR: They’re going to be the venues that you want to play at because they just hold some sort of emotional or cultural significance for you.

00:25:02.880 –> 00:25:08.440
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Then they’re going to be other venues where it’s like, oh, you might feel neutral about it.

00:25:08.440 –> 00:25:16.340
CHRISTAL HECTOR: But the more experience you have under your belt, the faster you’ll get to play the rooms that you really want to play.

00:25:17.140 –> 00:25:22.700
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Getting that initial experience is not just about focusing on those hard-ticketed shows.

00:25:22.700 –> 00:25:36.200
CHRISTAL HECTOR: It’s about joining those writers’ rounds, being a supporting act on other artists’ bills, just finding as many opportunities as you can to get in front of an audience and show your face around whatever hometown you’re in.

00:25:36.200 –> 00:25:53.480
CHRISTAL HECTOR: When you do that, you’re of course building experience and confidence as a performer, but you’re also building up that show history we talked about earlier, which creates credibility and makes it easier for you to get booked at the rooms you really want to be in.

00:25:53.480 –> 00:26:05.800
ROBONZO: Getting back to treating venues as collaborators and partners rather than gatekeepers, how should an artist think about that in practice, not just philosophically but behaviorally?

00:26:05.800 –> 00:26:20.780
CHRISTAL HECTOR: If a venue, let’s say once a show is on the books between a venue and an artist, there’s often still a lot of moving pieces that go into making the show happen before show night.

00:26:22.400 –> 00:26:35.040
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Unfortunately, more often than we would like, the communication isn’t always great between that artist and the venue.

00:26:35.040 –> 00:26:43.340
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Part of the partnership looks like both sides showing that they’re very responsive, right?

00:26:43.340 –> 00:26:51.500
CHRISTAL HECTOR: They’re thinking about each other’s needs and trying to meet each other’s needs and putting equal effort into making the night a success.

00:26:51.500 –> 00:26:59.580
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And understanding that sometimes an artist’s definition of success might not equal the venue’s definition of success.

00:26:59.580 –> 00:27:04.580
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And partnership kind of like in romantic relationships, right?

00:27:05.140 –> 00:27:09.320
CHRISTAL HECTOR: It’s not just about fulfilling your definition of success.

00:27:09.320 –> 00:27:15.600
CHRISTAL HECTOR: It’s also considering the definition that your partner has and helping them achieve that as well.

00:27:15.600 –> 00:27:15.920
ROBONZO: Sure.

00:27:15.920 –> 00:27:27.820
ROBONZO: Like so for the sales and the draw mix, while they’re correlated, perhaps some venues care more about one of those metrics than they would another.

00:27:27.820 –> 00:27:43.980
ROBONZO: I suppose it’s good to try and think about tactful and direct questions about that to let them know that you understand they’ve got a business going and you really want to do the best that you can to help them further their business goals.

00:27:43.980 –> 00:27:46.460
ROBONZO: Just like we might do in a relationship.

00:27:46.460 –> 00:27:48.300
ROBONZO: Probably much easier actually.

00:27:49.500 –> 00:27:53.400
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And it doesn’t have to be like carrying the world on your shoulders.

00:27:53.400 –> 00:27:55.680
CHRISTAL HECTOR: It’s all the small things that add up.

00:27:55.680 –> 00:27:56.300
ROBONZO: That makes sense.

00:27:57.580 –> 00:28:03.840
ROBONZO: I know from a performer perspective, a lot of little things matter to us.

00:28:03.840 –> 00:28:10.360
ROBONZO: And I want to say, well, you’ve mentioned it a couple of times from the venue perspective.

00:28:10.360 –> 00:28:12.020
ROBONZO: Is the artist going to be easy to work with?

00:28:12.020 –> 00:28:14.600
ROBONZO: And similarly, is the venue going to be easy to work with?

00:28:14.600 –> 00:28:21.700
ROBONZO: But is that staff once you’re there, the booking’s done, but you go in and the staff, what were they like to work with?

00:28:22.580 –> 00:28:27.660
ROBONZO: And also conversely, what were you like for them to work with?

00:28:27.660 –> 00:28:37.280
ROBONZO: So yeah, I guess it’s good to remind yourself of those things and then try and just put the shoe on the other foot and think about how they feel and see if you’re doing all that you can.

00:28:37.280 –> 00:28:38.360
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yeah, for sure.

00:28:38.360 –> 00:28:40.360
CHRISTAL HECTOR: It goes both ways.

00:28:40.360 –> 00:28:44.220
ROBONZO: Is there like an ideal number of shows for a first tour?

00:28:44.220 –> 00:28:49.060
ROBONZO: Like how does an artist know if they’re doing too much or maybe even too little?

00:28:49.060 –> 00:28:50.140
CHRISTAL HECTOR: That’s a great question.

00:28:51.060 –> 00:28:56.440
CHRISTAL HECTOR: I would say it really comes down to the artist and the purpose of their tour.

00:28:56.440 –> 00:29:07.060
CHRISTAL HECTOR: You know, if they are maximizing for, let’s say, as many shows as they can do because they just want to get their face out there.

00:29:07.060 –> 00:29:11.840
CHRISTAL HECTOR: I wouldn’t say there’s necessarily a limit on the number of shows that they can do.

00:29:11.840 –> 00:29:15.540
CHRISTAL HECTOR: You know, definitely don’t want to get Burge out.

00:29:16.660 –> 00:29:19.940
CHRISTAL HECTOR: But I wouldn’t put a specific number on the number of shows.

00:29:20.020 –> 00:29:23.400
CHRISTAL HECTOR: I think it just comes down to artists’ understanding personally.

00:29:23.400 –> 00:29:26.380
CHRISTAL HECTOR: What are they trying to get out of a given tour?

00:29:26.380 –> 00:29:28.820
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Because that can change from tour to tour.

00:29:28.820 –> 00:29:34.420
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And managing the number of shows and where you’re playing based on what you’re trying to get out of it.

00:29:34.420 –> 00:29:54.460
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So like, for example, if an artist is trying to maximize profitability for their tour, they might do more shows within a certain radius where, like we mentioned earlier at the Daisy Tour, they can go home cutting out the lodging cost, or they can stay with other musicians they know personally.

00:29:54.460 –> 00:30:06.060
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Other artists might play shows that give them guarantees versus hard-ticketed shows if they’re looking for a more predictable source of revenue on tour.

00:30:06.060 –> 00:30:13.160
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So there’s so many ways to mix and match based on what an artist’s goal is ultimately.

00:30:13.160 –> 00:30:17.300
ROBONZO: Yeah, and I suppose it would have to be a little bit of experimenting, too.

00:30:17.300 –> 00:30:54.740
ROBONZO: And I wonder, I was thinking about some conversations I’ve had in the last year with people that are, you know, they’re seasoned at touring, but the conversations are a little bit new for me in talking about this sort of emotional high and low thing and the kind of solitude that comes along with, that can come along with being out on the road, particularly if you’re the all too common solo performer going out or someone who goes out like my friend that I mentioned earlier.

00:30:54.740 –> 00:31:04.700
ROBONZO: He’s a blues artist that has a focus on Chicago blues style and he’s been able to travel all over the world and entertain people.

00:31:04.700 –> 00:31:26.500
ROBONZO: The wonderful thing for him is that there’s a fairly common language, music language in blues, where he can more easily get pick up bands as opposed to somebody maybe who’s playing something that’s not the simplest of rock genres, where there are just unpredictable changes, you know, if you don’t have time for that thing.

00:31:26.500 –> 00:31:30.280
ROBONZO: Yeah, I don’t know if there’s a lot out there.

00:31:30.280 –> 00:31:47.040
ROBONZO: I mean, there are resources for artists who might struggle, but I don’t know that there, I haven’t gotten a sense that there’s a lot available to artists to sort of predict the possibilities of these things that are a little more maybe esoteric or something, you know, just emotional things that can happen.

00:31:47.040 –> 00:31:53.980
ROBONZO: And obviously, the kind of physical energy thing that can happen from life on the road.

00:31:53.980 –> 00:32:01.980
ROBONZO: What do you have you are there, you know, does that get taught much in your experience?

00:32:01.980 –> 00:32:04.480
CHRISTAL HECTOR: You know, I think you’re exactly right.

00:32:04.480 –> 00:32:12.340
CHRISTAL HECTOR: There aren’t that many resources that, you know, can adequately prepare an artist emotionally for that experience.

00:32:12.340 –> 00:32:36.060
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And it’s so important to have a support network, you know, and understand that even if you’re out of town, find some way to stay connected with the people who care about you, who are thinking about your well-being, because there will certainly be times where, you know, for whatever reason, something doesn’t go right or, you know, the pressure just feels like it’s a lot.

00:32:37.600 –> 00:32:44.340
CHRISTAL HECTOR: But turning back to those people who care will mean the world of difference and give you the energy that you need to keep going.

00:32:44.340 –> 00:32:45.500
ROBONZO: Right.

00:32:45.500 –> 00:32:57.880
ROBONZO: I even heard an artist say that he was joking, but he says, you know, you go from this environment where you’re playing and people, you know, between sets, people are just coming up to you and talking to you at length.

00:32:57.880 –> 00:33:04.980
ROBONZO: And then you go to have breakfast the next morning by yourself, and no one’s cheering you on because nobody knows you.

00:33:06.580 –> 00:33:09.340
ROBONZO: And he said it’s going to be kind of challenging.

00:33:09.340 –> 00:33:10.960
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Pretty jarring, huh?

00:33:10.960 –> 00:33:12.760
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:33:12.760 –> 00:33:25.760
ROBONZO: What in your mind makes touring financially sustainable versus, you know, like a money-losing proposition, walk me through the economics an artist needs to understand or think about?

00:33:25.760 –> 00:33:32.220
CHRISTAL HECTOR: You know, boil the economics down to two things, your expenses and your revenue, right?

00:33:32.360 –> 00:33:34.220
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So can you minimize your expenses?

00:33:34.220 –> 00:33:40.320
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Expenses typically being lodging, gas, food.

00:33:40.320 –> 00:33:42.780
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Those are the three primary ones, right?

00:33:42.780 –> 00:33:45.340
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Vans, if you’re renting a van.

00:33:45.340 –> 00:33:46.880
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And maximize your revenue.

00:33:46.880 –> 00:33:51.600
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So if you’re doing hard-ticketed shows, how do you sell as many tickets as you can?

00:33:51.600 –> 00:34:04.800
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Are you pre-reaching out to your fan bases in whatever cities you’re performing in, letting them know that you’re coming and incentivizing them to buy pre-sale when that’s available?

00:34:04.800 –> 00:34:12.860
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Are you filling in-between dates or date stacking, which is a term we like to use, essentially.

00:34:12.860 –> 00:34:24.040
CHRISTAL HECTOR: If you know that you have two of your main shows with a big gap between them, like five or more days, are you looking for ways to fill that gap so you’re still making money?

00:34:24.040 –> 00:34:35.720
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Because the truth is, you are still spending money, right, incurring costs on those days that you’re not performing, right, whether you’re eating, whether you’re, you know, staying at a hotel.

00:34:35.720 –> 00:34:50.300
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So anything you can do to make more money while you’re on tour is super helpful in fixing that profitability equation so that you come out in the green and, you know, can tour another day.

00:34:50.400 –> 00:35:01.620
ROBONZO: Are there things that when artists are planning, particularly when they’re a little new at this, that can tell them if what they’re working on is financially viable?

00:35:01.620 –> 00:35:10.620
ROBONZO: I’m sure the answer is yes, but like what are some of the things they should be tracking or looking at to know if it’s financially viable before they commit to a tour?

00:35:10.620 –> 00:35:17.100
CHRISTAL HECTOR: I would definitely say, think about where your fans are.

00:35:17.100 –> 00:35:36.500
CHRISTAL HECTOR: You know, we’re big proponents of subscriber lists, fan lists, any way for you to keep track of who your fans are, but also where they’re located, because you definitely want to go to the places where you know the people will actually turn out.

00:35:36.500 –> 00:35:48.360
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So when you’re in the process of planning your tour, one way to estimate whether or not you’re going to be profitable is how many fans do you have in each of those cities?

00:35:48.360 –> 00:35:58.620
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And in the past, if you have this historical data already, what percentage of them usually come out to your shows when you go to that city?

00:35:58.620 –> 00:36:03.440
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So the more historical data you have from your own performance history, the better.

00:36:03.440 –> 00:36:13.020
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And if you don’t yet have that data, it’s totally fine to do a rough estimate based on maybe what you see from other artists.

00:36:13.020 –> 00:36:14.640
ROBONZO: Yeah, that makes sense.

00:36:14.640 –> 00:36:32.820
ROBONZO: Are there common, just thinking of sort of admin reduction or falling in the category probably of planning, but are there notable kind of time wasters in booking and touring that artists could eliminate or systemize that are frequent time wasters?

00:36:34.920 –> 00:36:37.140
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yeah.

00:36:37.140 –> 00:36:40.140
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So reach out to the right places.

00:36:40.140 –> 00:36:44.740
CHRISTAL HECTOR: I would also say consolidate your information in one place.

00:36:44.740 –> 00:36:54.120
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So if you’re tracking venues you’ve reached out to, artists that you’ve requested, play, perform with you at your different stops in different cities.

00:36:56.120 –> 00:37:14.980
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Have that all in one place so that you’re not constantly redoing outreach or trying to find old, you know, like where a conversation left off and just that level of organization both reduces stress and it reduces the amount of time the whole process takes holistically.

00:37:16.080 –> 00:37:36.780
ROBONZO: I’m sure it’s a topic of conversation and perhaps well into implementation, but are you talking with venues and artists about AI tools that can help them out with some of that, those things you just mentioned or other facets of their planning and strategizing?

00:37:39.020 –> 00:37:41.100
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yeah, I would say this.

00:37:41.100 –> 00:37:49.660
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Most of our venues are not really, like when it comes to AI, I think holistically, there’s a lot of skepticism.

00:37:49.660 –> 00:37:54.540
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Like we know these days, we’ve seen over the past year that AI is super powerful, can do a lot for us.

00:37:54.540 –> 00:38:02.980
CHRISTAL HECTOR: But I think the adoption in our industry and particularly by venues, because the owners tend to be a bit older, is a little bit slower.

00:38:04.600 –> 00:38:14.200
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So at the end of the day, if they can see proof that whatever the AI tool is actually speeds up their processes, it makes their life easier.

00:38:14.200 –> 00:38:22.140
CHRISTAL HECTOR: I’m sure they would adopt it, but we haven’t really heard from them that there are any specific AI tools they’ve been using.

00:38:23.740 –> 00:38:36.480
CHRISTAL HECTOR: One thing I can say though, is that by summer, we’re going to have some new tools on TuneHatch that will help artists in particular build out their tours faster with a little bit of that AI magic.

00:38:36.480 –> 00:38:38.580
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So stay tuned.

00:38:38.580 –> 00:38:39.420
ROBONZO: That’s great.

00:38:39.420 –> 00:38:46.780
ROBONZO: I’ve certainly developed a resource library that heavily leveraged AI in producing some of these things.

00:38:46.780 –> 00:39:01.000
ROBONZO: But thinking about all the different ways you can use it, badly I guess is a good word to use, just by not checking what you’re producing, not reading things, not trying things.

00:39:01.000 –> 00:39:08.940
ROBONZO: And even after doing that, sometimes I’m like, I hope that I need to rely on user feedback for this stuff too.

00:39:08.940 –> 00:39:14.520
ROBONZO: So I’m constantly asking, let me know how this stuff works for you in case I missed something.

00:39:14.520 –> 00:39:20.800
ROBONZO: But that’s kind of on when you’re having it do some somewhat heavy lifting for you.

00:39:20.800 –> 00:39:27.380
ROBONZO: But gosh, just this week, I mean, we always hear about the hallucinations and things that I do.

00:39:29.320 –> 00:39:39.340
ROBONZO: I have been using an AI assistant to help me with sifting through guest submissions and evaluating.

00:39:39.340 –> 00:39:46.260
ROBONZO: And I saw this week one of the worst instances, I guess, of hallucination or just making things up.

00:39:46.360 –> 00:39:46.960
ROBONZO: I’m like, what?

00:39:46.960 –> 00:39:49.020
ROBONZO: I’m literally like, what are you doing?

00:39:49.020 –> 00:39:51.320
ROBONZO: What are you talking about?

00:39:51.320 –> 00:39:59.160
ROBONZO: But well, it’s just like you have to be, we have to be careful with these tools, but they’re great.

00:39:59.160 –> 00:40:09.600
ROBONZO: While they can make a superhuman though, they can also enable us to do a lot more stuff, which means you’re using every last minute, every time doing a lot more stuff sometimes.

00:40:09.600 –> 00:40:11.880
ROBONZO: So it’s a double-edged sword.

00:40:11.900 –> 00:40:12.880
CHRISTAL HECTOR: 100 percent.

00:40:12.880 –> 00:40:14.700
CHRISTAL HECTOR: We just have more capacity to do more stuff.

00:40:18.800 –> 00:40:20.540
CHRISTAL HECTOR: That’s what it is, I guess.

00:40:20.540 –> 00:40:21.800
ROBONZO: The irony.

00:40:21.800 –> 00:40:24.580
ROBONZO: Let’s talk about post-show follow-up.

00:40:24.580 –> 00:40:32.440
ROBONZO: What’s the system or the recommendation for post-show follow-up with venues to ensure you get invited back or to better your chances anyway?

00:40:32.440 –> 00:40:33.620
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Definitely.

00:40:33.620 –> 00:40:37.700
CHRISTAL HECTOR: As we always hear, common courtesy when we’re young, just say thank you.

00:40:37.700 –> 00:40:39.080
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Thank you for the opportunity.

00:40:39.080 –> 00:40:41.120
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Express real gratitude.

00:40:42.160 –> 00:40:53.460
CHRISTAL HECTOR: The night of the show, after the show concludes and you’re getting ready to leave, show some thanks to the staff because they helped to make the night run well.

00:40:55.560 –> 00:41:06.480
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Something funny that sometimes happens is a band will leave before they actually collect their paycheck, which sounds crazy.

00:41:06.480 –> 00:41:11.240
CHRISTAL HECTOR: You leave your cash on the table, but that’s actually a problem sometimes.

00:41:11.240 –> 00:41:22.800
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So make sure that you’re collecting everything before you leave this venue, because it can cause complications later, especially when it involves money.

00:41:22.800 –> 00:41:32.580
CHRISTAL HECTOR: But anything that you need to just tie up and conclude, make sure you get that wrapped up before you leave the venue ideally, but definitely before you leave town.

00:41:33.880 –> 00:41:35.100
ROBONZO: Yeah, definitely.

00:41:36.280 –> 00:41:50.640
ROBONZO: I would imagine, I mean, it seems to reason most musicians wouldn’t forget that small detail, particularly if they’re playing with other musicians and there’s like one person, typically the gig coordinator member of the band who’s responsible for paying the others.

00:41:50.640 –> 00:41:57.920
ROBONZO: But TuneHatch started serving venues before adding artist tools, correct?

00:41:57.920 –> 00:41:58.480
CHRISTAL HECTOR: That’s correct.

00:41:59.540 –> 00:42:11.260
ROBONZO: How does the venue first origin inform the things that we’ve talked about today and inform you in helping artists and developing artist tools?

00:42:11.260 –> 00:42:19.520
CHRISTAL HECTOR: When we originally came up the concept of TuneHatch, it was actually built with three sides of the live music industry in mind.

00:42:19.520 –> 00:42:22.640
CHRISTAL HECTOR: We like to call this our ecosystem triangle.

00:42:22.760 –> 00:42:24.320
CHRISTAL HECTOR: You know how a triangle is three sides?

00:42:24.740 –> 00:42:28.460
CHRISTAL HECTOR: For us, it’s the artist, the venue, and the promoter.

00:42:30.120 –> 00:42:36.600
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And our philosophy is that with any of those three sides struggles, the whole system struggles.

00:42:36.600 –> 00:42:52.300
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So we actually built TuneHatch in a way where when a venue works with an artist, even though we started with venues as our main customer, the artist experience was better than it was when the venue was not using TuneHatch.

00:42:52.780 –> 00:42:54.880
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So our processes were more transparent.

00:42:54.880 –> 00:42:57.600
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Artists could see their ticket sales in real time.

00:42:57.600 –> 00:43:00.740
CHRISTAL HECTOR: They could be booked through TuneHatch by that venue.

00:43:00.740 –> 00:43:03.740
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And the booking process was a lot more straightforward.

00:43:03.740 –> 00:43:07.580
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Everything that venue was looking for listed transparently.

00:43:07.580 –> 00:43:16.180
CHRISTAL HECTOR: The application process was the click of a button to submit your EPK and a unique message if you wanted to to that venue.

00:43:16.180 –> 00:43:39.080
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And so just thinking about this end-to-end process of what does booking, promoting, and ticketing look like in terms of how artists, venues, and promoters work together, launching that to venues first also was our way to make the process better for artists before we launched more artist-specific tools later down the road.

00:43:39.080 –> 00:43:40.900
ROBONZO: That makes a lot of sense.

00:43:40.900 –> 00:43:47.860
ROBONZO: Okay, this seems like a good place to ask for the, ask you to give me the elevator pitch for TuneHatch.

00:43:47.920 –> 00:43:50.460
ROBONZO: You kind of started there.

00:43:50.460 –> 00:43:56.500
ROBONZO: But what can you add to the question of why should independent music artists and industry professionals care about TuneHatch?

00:43:56.500 –> 00:44:17.960
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Again, at the end of the day, what makes TuneHatch different from other tools is we built it with the ecosystem in mind, mutually uplifting all sides of the live music ecosystem because we know that to make it sustainable and profitable for all sides involved, you have to help them work better together.

00:44:18.060 –> 00:44:37.500
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So that is, in a nutshell, our mission, our vision, and we do everything we can to work with the users who use our platform to make TuneHatch the best product, the best system for creating a more sustainable and profitable ecosystem for all.

00:44:39.440 –> 00:44:40.700
ROBONZO: Man, that sounds great.

00:44:40.700 –> 00:44:43.680
ROBONZO: And it sounds like you’ve really internalized that.

00:44:47.140 –> 00:44:54.480
ROBONZO: It comes across very informative and genuine sound and sounds easy for you.

00:44:55.580 –> 00:44:57.180
CHRISTAL HECTOR: It’s been the vision since day one.

00:44:57.180 –> 00:45:01.760
CHRISTAL HECTOR: So, you know, it’s very near and dear to our hearts for sure.

00:45:01.760 –> 00:45:02.380
ROBONZO: That’s great.

00:45:02.380 –> 00:45:09.840
ROBONZO: Well, I encourage music artists and industry professionals to check out TuneHatch.

00:45:09.840 –> 00:45:14.680
ROBONZO: There are some things, a couple of things I’ll probably mention in the introduction for the episode.

00:45:14.680 –> 00:45:22.940
ROBONZO: But I think the origin story is pretty cool and what you guys are doing at TuneHatch is cool as well.

00:45:22.940 –> 00:45:26.400
ROBONZO: And people can learn more about TuneHatch at tunehatch.com.

00:45:27.900 –> 00:45:35.040
ROBONZO: Is there anything else you would like to leave in terms of things we’ve talked about or the industry or TuneHatch?

00:45:35.420 –> 00:45:37.060
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Yes, maybe some last comments.

00:45:37.060 –> 00:45:42.960
CHRISTAL HECTOR: I’ll just say that booking shows and touring will never be easy, right?

00:45:42.960 –> 00:45:51.240
CHRISTAL HECTOR: But it can be easier and more approachable when we understand the systems that make it more sustainable and profitable.

00:45:51.240 –> 00:46:05.540
CHRISTAL HECTOR: And so, you know, specifically if you’re an artist that’s trying to go on tour, TuneHatch Tour Builder is a affordable resource that helps you find venues that are the right fit for you, to map your route and tour anywhere.

00:46:06.640 –> 00:46:07.600
ROBONZO: Nice.

00:46:07.600 –> 00:46:11.220
ROBONZO: And yeah, it sure does look affordable, by the way, looking at the website.

00:46:11.220 –> 00:46:18.040
ROBONZO: And I think our conversation will prove to be very educational for those that check it out.

00:46:18.040 –> 00:46:19.860
ROBONZO: And I enjoy talking with you.

00:46:19.860 –> 00:46:23.240
ROBONZO: I appreciate your spending time with me today.

00:46:23.240 –> 00:46:26.200
ROBONZO: And I know this is going to be a great episode.

00:46:26.500 –> 00:46:27.140
CHRISTAL HECTOR: It’s been great.

00:46:27.140 –> 00:46:28.120
CHRISTAL HECTOR: Thanks so much for having me.

00:46:29.880 –> 00:46:32.720
ROBONZO: As an independent podcaster, your support means the world to me.

00:46:32.720 –> 00:46:34.780
ROBONZO: You could even say I depend on it.

00:46:34.780 –> 00:46:37.600
ROBONZO: With that in mind, here are some things you can do to help support us.

00:46:37.600 –> 00:46:49.300
ROBONZO: Follow us on your favorite podcast app, leave us a review on your favorite podcast app, or shoot me a review by email, robonzo at unstarvingmusician.com that I can use on the website.

00:46:49.300 –> 00:46:51.620
ROBONZO: Or just share this episode with a friend.

00:46:51.620 –> 00:46:53.860
ROBONZO: This makes a huge impact on our audience growth.

00:46:54.900 –> 00:47:06.640
ROBONZO: You could also visit our crowd sponsor page at unstarvingmusician.com/crowdsponsor to learn of the many other ways of supporting the podcast, including a quick and easy online tip jar.

00:47:06.640 –> 00:47:11.200
ROBONZO: It’s like click, tip, done, easy and super appreciated.

00:47:11.200 –> 00:47:22.180
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00:47:22.180 –> 00:47:26.460
ROBONZO: The music you’re hearing is New God’s Part 2, the instrumental mix by yours truly.

00:47:26.460 –> 00:47:31.320
ROBONZO: You can hear the full version, download it or buy it at robonzo.com.

00:47:31.320 –> 00:47:41.520
ROBONZO: If all this was too much to remember or process, just go to the show notes for this episode at unstarvingmusician.com to find links to all the stuff talked about in this episode.

00:47:42.000 –> 00:47:46.080
ROBONZO: You can leave us feedback, questions, comments, complaints at unstarvingmusician.com/feedback.

00:47:48.600 –> 00:47:50.000
ROBONZO: Thanks for listening.

00:47:50.000 –> 00:47:52.180
ROBONZO: Peace, gratitude, and a whole lot of love.