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ROBONZO: Welcome to The Unstarving Musician.

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ROBONZO: I’m Robonzo.

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ROBONZO: This is my podcast.

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ROBONZO: How are you?

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ROBONZO: Where are you?

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ROBONZO: What are you wearing?

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ROBONZO: How’s your weather?

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ROBONZO: Mine is good.

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ROBONZO: I hope yours is too.

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ROBONZO: If you’re an independent musician who’s ever wondered whether physical products, vinyl, CDs, cassettes, actually make financial sense in 2026, this conversation is for you.

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ROBONZO: My guest is Thom Skarzynski, founder of Happiness Marketing, a physical first music strategy consultancy.

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ROBONZO: Thom spent 20 years climbing through the major label system, radio promotion, product management at Fueled by Ramen and Epic Records, Spotify’s artist management team, and eventually running sales at Epic before becoming VP of Marketing and Revenue Strategy at Atlantic Music Group.

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ROBONZO: At Atlantic, he worked on campaigns that proved something the industry had been overlooking.

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ROBONZO: Artists with loyal fan bases, the kind who sell out venues night after night, were leaving massive revenue on the table by treating physical products as an afterthought.

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ROBONZO: Case in point, Twenty One Pilots’ 2024 album, Clancy, streaming alone would have generated about 28,000 equivalent album units in its first week.

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ROBONZO: The campaign Thom helped build delivered 143,000 total units and the album went gold.

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ROBONZO: The following year, their album Breach moved nearly 170,000 physical units out of 200,000 total first week sales.

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ROBONZO: Those aren’t major labeled budgets creating magic.

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ROBONZO: They’re strategic decisions about format, packaging, pricing, and fan psychology that translates into independent scale.

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ROBONZO: In this episode, Thom breaks down the economics of physical products for indie artists.

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ROBONZO: The mistakes that kill profitability, and why he believes 2026 is the year physical stops being a sideshow and becomes a core revenue channel for artists willing to treat it seriously.

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ROBONZO: We talk forecasting demand, managing manufacturing risk, designing products fans actually want to own, and why shipping your album in a generic mailer without a personal touch is leaving money and loyalty on the table.

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ROBONZO: And more, if you’ve ever felt like streaming isn’t enough but weren’t sure what else to build, this conversation will give you a framework.

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ROBONZO: I take a lot of notes from conversations like this one.

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ROBONZO: I use those notes to help me research and sometimes follow up, have follow up off mic conversations to develop actionable frameworks that you can use in your creative endeavors.

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ROBONZO: The idea is to help you build a sustainable creative career in music and other creative disciplines.

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ROBONZO: I write about all of this in a bi-weekly newsletter called LinerNotes.

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ROBONZO: You can sign up for this free newsletter at unstarvingmusician.com/linernotes.

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ROBONZO: There’s a premium version I call LinerNotes Insider, but for most the free version is a helpful resource.

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ROBONZO: Try it out.

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ROBONZO: You can unsubscribe at any time.

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ROBONZO: Again, visit unstarvingmusician.com/linernotes to sign up.

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ROBONZO: A quick note about my recording with Thom.

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ROBONZO: We got disconnected during our conversation.

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ROBONZO: I did my best to edit and compensate, but if you notice a difference in my guest’s audio partway through our conversation, that’s what you’re hearing.

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ROBONZO: It was one of those unexpected internet things, but out of our control, but it sounds fine, I think.

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ROBONZO: You won’t be too annoyed.

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ROBONZO: Now let’s get into it.

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ROBONZO: Here is me speaking with Thom Skarzynski of Happiness Marketing.

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ROBONZO: Are you located in New York?

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I am in New Jersey.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I do have a spot in New York, that I’ll maybe once or twice a week.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: When it gets nicer, I’ll go more often, but I’m a New Jersey guy, deep Jersey.

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ROBONZO: Is that where you’re from originally?

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah, it is.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I will say we live two blocks from my in-laws right now.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: So that’s why we’re deep Jersey.

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ROBONZO: That’s cool.

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ROBONZO: I understand.

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ROBONZO: So what was it like growing up there?

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I always loved New Jersey.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I always felt fortunate because we’re so close to New York.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: It was about a 45-minute ride, but my parents would always take me into the city and we’d see Broadway shows and all of that.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: A lot of tours will come through, especially now, and they’ll only hit New York.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: It does drive me a little nuts just how many artists play in Brooklyn, because I just refuse at this point.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I can’t take Brooklyn.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah, I mean, very fortunate.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: It’s one of those things that you think back on of what shaped your life to get you to where you are now.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I would never have been in the music industry if I didn’t live in New Jersey.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I started interning at record labels of different sorts when I was 14 years old.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I was only able to do that because I could take the train to New York and do it.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: It was nice.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Where are you based?

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I’m sorry.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I should know this.

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ROBONZO: That’s okay.

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ROBONZO: I mean, I was laughing thinking, yeah, they say be where the action is and arguably I’m not.

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ROBONZO: But I live in Queretaro, Mexico, which is outside of Mexico City.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Oh, okay.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Beautiful.

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ROBONZO: Yeah.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: So I am guessing you do not have snow covering everything right now like we do in New Jersey.

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ROBONZO: No, it’s sunny.

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ROBONZO: It’s our weather got kind of warm.

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ROBONZO: We had, I thought our winter was over, but we had a bit of a cool snap, I guess last week, but I’m talking like three days.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah, what’s cool?

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ROBONZO: Well, this was like low 40s.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: That is kind of cool though.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: That’s low.

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ROBONZO: Yeah, especially when you’re soft like me.

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ROBONZO: My wife and I, so we lived in San Jose, California for 17 years together, but in 2016, we moved to Panama, so it was like total tropics and humidity and warm.

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ROBONZO: So anytime I go back either to California or to Texas, where I’m from, I’d be freezing indoors, even if it was hot outside because everyone’s got air conditioning.

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ROBONZO: But then here, it’s a little more like San Jose, except it’s high desert, but as far as temperature, it’s a lot like San Jose, but yeah, when it gets cold, I get pretty cold.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: When I worked at Epic Records, I was traveling to California every other week, and my wife and I lived up in North Jersey, so I could go into the city, and she was just alone most of the time.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Then when we had our first child, she didn’t want to be alone all the time.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Coming down here, I can put up with the commute no problem, and she has a support system, so it works out really well.

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ROBONZO: Sounds like it.

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ROBONZO: You mentioned, touched on part of your career there, Epic, but you’ve been in the biz for about 20 years or more?

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah, 20 years.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: That’s officially in it.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I started when I was 18, 38 right now.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I don’t know where that time went.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I remember counting down to my 21st birthday.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I don’t remember having 17 birthdays after that, but I started in music.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I knew I wanted to be in music from my first concert, which was Canadian band, Our Lady Peace, who I still love.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I have multiple tattoos devoted to them.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: But yeah, I saw them on stage and knew I couldn’t play an instrument, but desperately wanted to just be a part of the industry.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: So first, internships were, one was around a festival that was run in New Jersey and helping out with that, and then going into the city and working with a lot of indie labels and management companies.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Eventually, I ended up with an internship with Atlantic Records, which I was very much against.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I was like the indie guy, and I ended up just falling in love with it, and the whole structure of it and the system.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: So I started working there 20 years ago and never looked back, I guess.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: But I know that this podcast is based around independent musicians, and that’s completely what I offer now, and I wouldn’t say I’m disenfranchised with the label system, I just think that there’s so much less of a need for artists to be signed to a major.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: The offering doesn’t contain much of what you need to succeed anymore, and I do think that changing, it’s like how a big ship takes a long time to change course.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I think it’s going to be a while before they get it completely right.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And listen, all my friends are from majors and are still working there, so I don’t want to insult majors.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: But I just think independence can do just as well, if not better.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I saw firsthand what we offered and how there was very little result often.

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ROBONZO: Well, I think it speaks to the massive changes that have gone on over the time that you’ve been in the industry, that you’ve made such a move and commented on it the way that you just did.

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ROBONZO: I was sitting here thinking as you first started talking about your 20-year career when you mentioned the labels and the independence.

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ROBONZO: I’m thinking in my head, you have seen a lot of interesting changes and I think you can summed it up in that little comment there in a way that it has changed a lot.

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ROBONZO: The offerings changed a lot and there are a lot of things that people, from what I’ve gathered, can do on their own.

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ROBONZO: One last sort of just, not goofy, but I guess I sort of icebreaker question or something, but what’s the story behind the name, the spelling, Happiness Period Space Marketing or Happiness Dot Marketing?

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Believe it or not, I don’t tell many people this because they’re not exactly the coolest.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: But Our Lady Peace had an album and a track called, Happiness Is Not A Fish That You Can Catch.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I believe the album was, Happiness Dot Dot Dot Is Not A Fish That You Can Catch.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: But that kind of is it.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I’ve always been one to, I like a good punctuation.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I do have it on my to-do list today to look into just happiness.dot.d-o-t-l-l-c, because I don’t think happiness marketing, at this point, is necessarily the right word for everything that we’re offering.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, I also have happiness endeavors, LLC.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I have a few things, but I just, I like keeping it really clean and simple.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I do think that there’s something memorable about seeing such a simple word with a period after it, and then lowercase letters following it, like indicating just what it is.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I’ll be honest, I, it came, I named the company when I was at my lowest.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I, you know, had been laid off.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I had two kids.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I had this thought in mind of what the industry should look like and experience working with some of the greatest artists I’ve ever worked with.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I, I, it was kind of a sarcastic happiness marketing.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, you know, in this economy, at this time, we’re going to be happy.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: But at the same time, now I use it as in my pitches to, to our, you know, artists or management companies as I want to surround myself with good people.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that’s, that’s the mantra behind happiness is I’ve seen too much bad.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I, I don’t want to be a part of that anymore.

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ROBONZO: Well, I like it.

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ROBONZO: I like the obscurity of it.

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ROBONZO: And it makes me think of, there’s an old stand up of Daniel Tosh is where he makes fun of himself a little bit because his jokes will just keep digressing down to this really weird, bizarre, niche-y commentary on something to where he says that I keep going until the lowest common, or lowest common denominators reach and only one person in the room understands what I’m talking about or sees the front door.

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ROBONZO: Anyway, no, but I like it.

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ROBONZO: It sort of makes me think of underdog kind of things, which I have an appreciation for.

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ROBONZO: So for context.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: No, likewise, yeah.

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ROBONZO: Yeah, I could tell.

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ROBONZO: So for context, so Happiness Marketing is like a physical first, and correct me if I’m wrong on this, but it’s like a physical first music strategy consultancy.

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ROBONZO: Actually, this is from happiness.llc, the URL, which is great.

00:14:07.759 –> 00:14:08.919
ROBONZO: Yeah.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: That’s exactly it.

00:14:10.199 –> 00:14:10.599
ROBONZO: Yeah.

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ROBONZO: You guys help artists and managers and label teams turn like real fan demand into chart eligible sales, revenue and long-term career momentum, especially when streaming alone isn’t enough.

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ROBONZO: Now break that down into layman’s terms.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: It sounds so corporate there.

00:14:26.779 –> 00:14:29.859
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Thanks ChatGPT for making me sound professional.

00:14:30.879 –> 00:14:33.059
THOM SKARZYNSKY: What’s old is new again.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I remember when street teams started going away at major labels, and the focus completely changed to other things.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I had worked at Field by Ramen at the time, and I remember thinking, gosh, our street team guy, he doesn’t stand a chance.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: Talk about outdated.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And nowadays, I feel like with streaming being dominant, I mean, streaming, yes, brings awareness, but it’s physical that brings the human emotional connection to music and to artists.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I look at streaming as a very passive activity.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I stream all day every day.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I’m not against it in any way.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I worked for Spotify for two years at an interesting time.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: But, you know, I also saw firsthand how many people will buy a vinyl without owning, you know, a record player, but just because it brought a connection to them in the album.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And on the same way, I mean, I own two copies of Frank Ocean’s Blonde, one the regular white version and one is a black version that doesn’t have the E at the end of Blonde.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And outside of my kids and my wife, you know, arguably my wife, that’s the most important thing, you know, I am surrounded by.

00:16:05.499 –> 00:16:09.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, that was a bad joke about my wife.

00:16:10.619 –> 00:16:11.719
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I wish I cut that.

00:16:11.719 –> 00:16:15.959
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But no, I find the physical connection as well.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: You know, every time I look at it, it makes me happy.

00:16:20.019 –> 00:16:24.259
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, I surround myself with, you know, I love Travis Scott.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I loved working with him with his merch is all over my office.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: I just see, you know, going to a live show can be a religious experience.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And getting a fan, a human experience is, I think, what people are craving.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that’s what we offer is, you know, part of our campaigns, you know, although we’ll never ever, ever ask an artist to do anything, like I’ll never say I need them to sign a thousand CDs or something.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: There was a time where anytime an artist would come into our office, we would, you know, look at the last 20 purchasers from their web store and say, hey, can you give these people a quick phone call to thank them for ordering?

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it went such a long way.

00:17:16.979 –> 00:17:18.759
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And nobody does that anymore.

00:17:18.759 –> 00:17:27.999
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And like, do you know how nuts a fan would go if if you’re ordering from a web store, you clearly care and have an emotional connection.

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THOM SKARZYNSKY: If I was to get a call right now from, you know, the last artist store that I ordered from, and the singer said, thanks for doing that.

00:17:37.279 –> 00:17:40.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You know, I would be indebted forever.

00:17:40.619 –> 00:17:41.759
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I would be a forever fan.

00:17:41.759 –> 00:17:49.179
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And we used to have, you know, Haley Williams from Paramore doing it or, you know, whoever it was at the time.

00:17:49.179 –> 00:17:52.759
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it was just a no-brainer, and you don’t see it anymore.

00:17:52.759 –> 00:18:00.599
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So it’s physical, but it’s also like the human touch is what we’re just so much about.

00:18:00.599 –> 00:18:13.859
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I think that that’s the future of the industry, as much as, you know, the very top wants to talk about, you know, streaming and the AI and, you know, how it’s gonna increase fandom.

00:18:14.679 –> 00:18:19.679
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I don’t see how AI can increase fandom or experiences.

00:18:19.679 –> 00:18:23.779
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I think you need the human experience to do that.

00:18:23.959 –> 00:18:26.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that’s what we’re all about.

00:18:26.279 –> 00:18:28.559
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It took a second to really center ourselves.

00:18:28.559 –> 00:18:34.279
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But now that we’re here, we’re building, you know, we’re building around it.

00:18:34.279 –> 00:18:37.279
ROBONZO: Well, I agree with what you just said.

00:18:37.279 –> 00:18:43.039
ROBONZO: And I think that a lot of indie artists and certainly people that listen to this can appreciate that.

00:18:43.939 –> 00:18:54.639
ROBONZO: So speaking of like physical product and from a strategic standpoint, what’s your framework for deciding which physical formats to produce or recommend?

00:18:54.639 –> 00:19:01.959
ROBONZO: Kind of walk me through how you would evaluate vinyl versus CDs versus cassettes or whatever for a specific release.

00:19:01.959 –> 00:19:06.779
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So it obviously depends on the artists and the genre and the timeframe.

00:19:06.779 –> 00:19:09.439
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And there’s like a million factors that it’ll depend on.

00:19:09.599 –> 00:19:20.639
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But in general, you know, I understand that every retailer will ask for, you know, their own vinyl variants and all of that.

00:19:20.639 –> 00:19:33.059
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So there’s reasons why the the Billie Eilish’s of the world, who I adore as well, will have, you know, 15 versions of her album available upon release or her LP.

00:19:33.059 –> 00:19:37.939
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But for me, you know, I think a great store can be made of.

00:19:38.599 –> 00:19:43.259
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I like to have three versions of an LP available.

00:19:43.259 –> 00:19:46.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: One that never sells out.

00:19:46.099 –> 00:19:48.699
THOM SKARZYNSKY: One that sells out very quickly.

00:19:48.699 –> 00:19:50.319
THOM SKARZYNSKY: That’s that’s very limited.

00:19:50.319 –> 00:19:52.299
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And then one on the in between.

00:19:52.299 –> 00:19:59.859
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And then I like, you know, I enjoy creating items that support the body of work itself.

00:19:59.859 –> 00:20:06.479
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So we do a lot of like journals or zines or whatever you want to call them, which they do contain a CD in them.

00:20:06.659 –> 00:20:23.119
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So when it comes to like, if you want to be a chart eligible, it’s fully chart eligible, but inside of them, you can put, you know, handwritten lyrics, you know, you can put images, paper based items are very inexpensive to make.

00:20:23.119 –> 00:20:25.239
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And there’s a very quick turnaround for them.

00:20:25.239 –> 00:20:29.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So, you know, even an independent artist can do such a thing.

00:20:29.219 –> 00:20:34.599
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You know, I know finding a manufacturer can be a headache, but they all do it.

00:20:34.779 –> 00:20:37.439
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s a very quick process.

00:20:37.439 –> 00:20:53.239
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, especially if there’s some design skills or whatever it is, I mean, putting it together, as long as it feels like it was curated by the artists, which it should be, it’s consistently a best seller, what I’ve seen.

00:20:53.239 –> 00:20:58.019
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I think that there’s a place for CDs, but a little less so.

00:20:58.019 –> 00:21:08.719
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Cassettes have always been, in the US., the lowest seller, no matter what project I work, no matter how cool we make them.

00:21:08.719 –> 00:21:15.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You know, there’s been times we’ve added in, you know, Polaroids into the cassette case and all of this cool stuff.

00:21:15.619 –> 00:21:18.759
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And still, the last thing to sell out.

00:21:18.759 –> 00:21:32.779
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I just love items that build into the album’s universe, because I do think that artists have fans of them, but to be a fan of the latest album is a really tricky thing.

00:21:32.939 –> 00:21:36.539
THOM SKARZYNSKY: A lot of people just like listening to what they already know.

00:21:36.539 –> 00:21:47.179
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So if you can offer something that brings them into the world of whatever the latest releases, I think the value of that is immeasurable.

00:21:47.179 –> 00:21:47.519
ROBONZO: Sure.

00:21:47.519 –> 00:21:59.679
ROBONZO: I had an artist from England in the last few years send me, I mean, she completely DIY-ed it, but she had like a little, I guess, zine in it and like hand-done art.

00:21:59.679 –> 00:22:00.439
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So cool, right?

00:22:00.959 –> 00:22:02.339
ROBONZO: Yeah, I still have it and it’s great.

00:22:02.339 –> 00:22:04.439
ROBONZO: It’s so funny too.

00:22:04.439 –> 00:22:09.639
ROBONZO: When we moved to Mexico, we bought this 2016 Nissan X-Trail in nice condition.

00:22:09.639 –> 00:22:16.019
ROBONZO: It was at the end of the pandemic and used cars were very expensive, blah, blah, blah, but it has a CD player in it.

00:22:16.019 –> 00:22:18.579
ROBONZO: So she’d sent me a CD, said, I’m going to play it in there.

00:22:18.579 –> 00:22:22.279
ROBONZO: It’s the only CD that’s ever gone in there because it won’t come out.

00:22:22.279 –> 00:22:23.299
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Oh my gosh.

00:22:23.299 –> 00:22:26.539
ROBONZO: But anyways, like well, if I was going to get one stuck in there, this is a good one.

00:22:26.659 –> 00:22:39.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So you know what’s funny though is, so I worked with an artist when I was with Field by Ramen and Roadrunner, a data remember who they’ve been around for a couple of decades now.

00:22:39.419 –> 00:22:44.359
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And we decided to go physical first with their latest album.

00:22:44.359 –> 00:22:48.979
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And we still did a proper streaming rollout.

00:22:48.979 –> 00:22:51.299
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Every couple of weeks, we released a song or two.

00:22:51.299 –> 00:23:00.599
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And eventually, I think we waited five weeks before we put the full album on all DSPs, Spotify and Apple Music and all of that.

00:23:00.599 –> 00:23:06.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But our announcement was, here’s the album.

00:23:06.419 –> 00:23:07.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It’s available today.

00:23:07.859 –> 00:23:15.639
THOM SKARZYNSKY: We coordinated it with indie stores and whoever was carrying it, that they’d put it on the shelves immediately.

00:23:15.639 –> 00:23:23.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I think it was a Tuesday that we did it to honor as a throwback to when albums were released on Tuesdays.

00:23:27.159 –> 00:23:33.339
THOM SKARZYNSKY: The band posted an announcement that said, go to your record store, go to our website.

00:23:33.339 –> 00:23:37.219
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Everything’s available and shipping immediately.

00:23:37.219 –> 00:23:55.379
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Not only was the response extremely successful from a sales perspective, but reading the comments from fans of like, man, listening to an album in my car for the first time in 10 years or whatever is such a great experience.

00:23:55.379 –> 00:24:15.039
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And all of these comments, and you remember that there is an entire part of the country that their cars do still have CD players and something, like not everyone is on the coasts and has the latest MacBook and whatever it is.

00:24:15.039 –> 00:24:18.779
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it was a great experience.

00:24:18.839 –> 00:24:21.199
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And we still did do the Spotify rollout.

00:24:21.199 –> 00:24:24.499
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that was completely fine.

00:24:24.499 –> 00:24:28.979
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Rock acts typically don’t do extremely well on streaming anyway.

00:24:28.979 –> 00:24:40.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So we weren’t very nervous about being penalized for going physical first because we didn’t have high expectations for our streaming campaign anyway.

00:24:40.079 –> 00:24:42.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it was it was a lot of fun.

00:24:42.419 –> 00:24:51.379
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It was a great campaign with an artist that made an album that they wanted to be listened to from start to finish.

00:24:51.379 –> 00:24:53.319
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So it was a cool experience.

00:24:53.539 –> 00:25:03.559
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It reminded me of just going home and putting on a CD and being like, wow, this is good or the opposite sometimes.

00:25:03.559 –> 00:25:04.139
ROBONZO: Right.

00:25:04.139 –> 00:25:07.019
ROBONZO: I know when we used to actually sit and listen to music.

00:25:07.059 –> 00:25:11.639
ROBONZO: I’ve been thinking about this specific time.

00:25:11.639 –> 00:25:14.039
ROBONZO: I was listening to music when I was very young.

00:25:14.039 –> 00:25:27.479
ROBONZO: These two girlfriends of mine came over to my parents’ house where I lived, and we were listening to the then still somewhat new, Some Girls album by The Rolling Stones and maybe some other stuff.

00:25:27.479 –> 00:25:38.639
ROBONZO: But I just can remember us sitting there and listening to it and talking about the songs and stuff and it’s just like such a pastime of history.

00:25:38.639 –> 00:25:40.219
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah, you’re so right.

00:25:40.219 –> 00:25:53.819
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, some of my favorite albums of all time, I’ll never forget sitting in my room and listening to and studying the lyrics and the liner notes and all of it.

00:25:53.819 –> 00:26:08.939
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it was such an experience and there are albums that stick with me to this day that take me back to my childhood bedroom of like, man, I’ll never forget the first time I heard this album.

00:26:09.179 –> 00:26:13.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It was, I wasn’t sure about buying it at the record store.

00:26:13.419 –> 00:26:17.319
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And then when I got home, it was just next level.

00:26:17.319 –> 00:26:20.779
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And you just, you don’t get that anymore.

00:26:20.779 –> 00:26:30.199
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, I guess with streaming, you can, but it’s just there’s so many other distractions that I don’t think you do.

00:26:30.539 –> 00:26:34.379
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I always think of it as such a passive kind of listen.

00:26:34.379 –> 00:26:43.539
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Anytime I listen to an album on streaming, there are entire songs that I’m, you know, have to go back to and say like, I don’t remember that one, you know?

00:26:43.539 –> 00:26:46.999
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s just a different experience.

00:26:46.999 –> 00:26:51.919
ROBONZO: Yeah, the deliveries makes it too easy to be doing something while you’re listening, so.

00:26:51.919 –> 00:26:52.799
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Exactly.

00:26:52.799 –> 00:27:08.499
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, it’s not the streaming platforms’ fault that, you know, that you can also have your phone out and, you know, you’re watching a YouTube video while you’re listening to this and you’re answering text messages and there’s too much going on.

00:27:08.859 –> 00:27:36.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s another reason why when we, Happiness Marketing does, you know, our launches, we try to get the emotional connection because we know it aids in people spending time with the album and a big thing we do too is, you know, with indie record stores, you know, the listening events, which I know have become super popular and everybody’s doing them now.

00:27:36.619 –> 00:28:06.399
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But talk about a time like, you know, when you can get a fan base together where the artist isn’t there but everybody’s listening for the first time and reacting, you know, in in real time and sharing a pulse and hearing the words and and you know, it’s just like you don’t it’s so rare and you you don’t get that experience often and I’m happy, you know, I it’s it’s funny.

00:28:06.399 –> 00:28:18.799
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I I did two interviews over the last couple of weeks with people that have been reporting about the the album listening party because apparently it’s you know, the new sensation.

00:28:18.799 –> 00:28:27.759
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But both of the interviewers said they were going to the listening party and it was going to be their first time ever in a record store.

00:28:27.759 –> 00:28:52.279
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s like, yeah, I thought that that same wow to myself of like, you know, the smell of a record store, the you know, the the experience of being there, of of seeing things and you know, it reminding you of albums and and you know, like, I mean, gosh, like, it’s just there’s so many benefits to it.

00:28:52.279 –> 00:28:56.819
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I like once again, it’s like everything old is becoming new again.

00:28:56.819 –> 00:29:03.819
THOM SKARZYNSKY: People want the physical experience of being in a place and like experiencing something.

00:29:03.819 –> 00:29:11.459
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, I read an article about how shopping malls are making a comeback because, you know, kids don’t want to order everything online.

00:29:11.559 –> 00:29:23.999
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, while I may not share that same sentiment, if I could never leave my house again, and especially for Christmas shopping, you know, what a nightmare that used to be.

00:29:23.999 –> 00:29:25.959
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But like, I get it, right?

00:29:25.959 –> 00:29:34.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, kids have spent a generation, you know, doing everything virtually.

00:29:34.079 –> 00:29:42.499
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And now it’s unique to go and try clothes on and, you know, look in a store and flip through things.

00:29:42.499 –> 00:29:51.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s just, it translates across music, across fashion, across every bit of consumer behavior.

00:29:51.659 –> 00:29:53.319
ROBONZO: That’s nice to hear.

00:29:53.319 –> 00:29:58.439
ROBONZO: So we were talking about, like, booklets, journals, zines.

00:29:58.439 –> 00:29:59.399
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah.

00:29:59.399 –> 00:30:04.059
ROBONZO: I read an interview of yours recently, Music Business Worldwide, I think, was a publication.

00:30:04.059 –> 00:30:10.839
ROBONZO: And it mentions like creating a book or a memento, something meaningful for the fans and packaged like with a vinyl or CD.

00:30:10.839 –> 00:30:26.879
ROBONZO: How do you decide what the additional component should be when you look at something like this and what makes that work at like the Twenty One Pilots scale versus the smaller independent artist scale?

00:30:26.879 –> 00:30:30.939
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Twenty One Pilots are a machine, right?

00:30:30.939 –> 00:30:35.039
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, their designer is incredible.

00:30:35.039 –> 00:30:42.559
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Their management team are the truest partners I’ve ever worked with.

00:30:42.879 –> 00:31:03.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I almost like feel insecurity speaking about them because they were so involved in every single phone call and email that, you know, it was a different level of what goes into the journal or zine there.

00:31:03.139 –> 00:31:16.739
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But, you know, with other artists that I’ve done it with, you know, oftentimes we just slide a CD in because it keeps it inexpensive enough for the fans, and it doesn’t really take away from the experience.

00:31:16.739 –> 00:31:21.959
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And then the content of it, you know, when I have to suggest things, that’s always the hardest part.

00:31:21.959 –> 00:31:29.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But, you know, I’m working with an artist now that it’s like, can you please just have the singer hand write the lyrics to the songs?

00:31:29.659 –> 00:31:38.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And if you have any studio photos and we can get a designer to, you know, mock it up and let it, it’ll just be, you know, 24 pages.

00:31:38.879 –> 00:31:40.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: We can, you know, make it cool.

00:31:40.619 –> 00:31:43.699
THOM SKARZYNSKY: We can sell it for an inexpensive price.

00:31:43.699 –> 00:31:48.319
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, and you know, it just, we want to bring people into the world of this album.

00:31:49.119 –> 00:32:05.759
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And then, you know, after we’ve received all of that, you know, working with the manufacturers, and I have a really great one, that’s My Secret Weapon, but she, she will do things like say, you know, do you want to emboss or deboss the cover?

00:32:05.759 –> 00:32:11.859
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And we’ll foil stamp this and we’ll, we’ll raise the text on this so it feels super cool.

00:32:11.859 –> 00:32:33.039
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And you know, like all of these extra features that you can do that again are like not very expensive because they’re paper-based and there’s stuff that will die cut that make it very cool or you can add, you know, glitter or you know, there’s so many like things you can add to make it unique.

00:32:33.039 –> 00:32:44.159
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And for me, that’s the key to doing it properly is whatever your vision for the album is, create a piece that represents it.

00:32:45.079 –> 00:32:49.399
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And you know, there’s mainstream artists that have done it wonderful.

00:32:49.399 –> 00:33:02.539
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I, you know, Olivia Rodrigo, when she released Guts did, it’s one of the most beautiful, I’m gonna just call it a book, but you know, zines or journal, whatever that I’ve ever seen.

00:33:02.539 –> 00:33:14.539
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s, you know, it’s die cut into a star and it has glitter on it and it’s glossy and it’s just like it represents the album so well.

00:33:14.539 –> 00:33:24.259
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I don’t remember what price point that she sold it at, but whatever it is, it’s like, it feels like real value when you’re holding something like that in your hands.

00:33:24.259 –> 00:33:31.959
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s really, you know, I have to stress, it’s not a very expensive endeavor.

00:33:31.959 –> 00:33:39.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Most manufacturers can do it for, you know, the cost of goods, you know, I don’t wanna make any promises.

00:33:39.179 –> 00:33:40.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It depends on the manufacturer.

00:33:40.659 –> 00:33:55.019
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But, you know, under $4 a piece or under $5 a piece, and the normal price point for something like that will range from anywhere from, you can sell it from $15 to $45, I’ve seen.

00:33:55.019 –> 00:34:03.019
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, it’s, there’s so much flexibility in there based on where you’re at in your career, and, you know, what’s gone into it.

00:34:03.019 –> 00:34:05.919
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And for me, it’s just, it’s a companion piece, right?

00:34:06.639 –> 00:34:15.739
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It’s something that while someone’s listening to the album, they can be flipping through, and they get a little view into their favorite artists and their life and all that.

00:34:15.739 –> 00:34:19.059
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I just, I love stuff like that.

00:34:19.059 –> 00:34:21.519
ROBONZO: Yeah, the super fan does, clearly.

00:34:22.979 –> 00:34:34.239
ROBONZO: Is there, I’m wondering if there is some inspiration from your youth, whether it was music or something else that makes you look at the physical, the way that you do.

00:34:34.239 –> 00:34:40.239
ROBONZO: And maybe it’s just been working with, you know, secret weapon manufacturers or something that’s really opened your eyes.

00:34:40.239 –> 00:34:47.099
ROBONZO: But is there, is there something from when you were younger that you can pinpoint as an inspiration?

00:34:47.099 –> 00:34:50.759
ROBONZO: Like, did you collect comic books or something?

00:34:50.759 –> 00:34:53.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Oh, my gosh, what a great question.

00:34:53.139 –> 00:34:53.939
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I didn’t.

00:34:53.939 –> 00:34:58.039
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I wasn’t really a big collector, even vinyl.

00:34:58.039 –> 00:35:01.799
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You know, I went through a phase where I did.

00:35:02.499 –> 00:35:55.379
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But I just, I think having worked in marketing and sales at music companies, I think when things started drying up, right, when radio, terrestrial radio stopped moving the needle for artists, and then when, you know, when Spotify’s editorial playlists meant less than they used to, and, you know, when TikTok stopped breaking artists in the way that it used to, and, you know, all of it, when music videos became less important to the experience, and you go through every department, right, and, you know, when a late night TV didn’t stop meaning you were going to sell records or stream anymore, and looking at the data, and it became a case of just like, well, what, what am I supposed to do, right?

00:35:55.499 –> 00:36:06.319
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I like, you know, I’d enter every album campaign, wanting it to be successful, but also realizing that nobody knows how to make something successful.

00:36:06.319 –> 00:36:25.259
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I realized that when it comes to streaming, because of, you know, the economics of what Billboard counts as, as an album equivalent is nearly 1500 streams, no one person can do that on their own, and especially in release week.

00:36:25.259 –> 00:36:29.599
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So for me, it’s, let’s, let’s go back to physical.

00:36:29.599 –> 00:36:32.919
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Let’s, let’s start creating items that are one to one again.

00:36:32.919 –> 00:36:48.579
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s not all about the chart, but it’s, I realized with rock bands, especially, whether it was Coldplay or Twenty One Pilots, but just we couldn’t depend on streaming to help us make a statement.

00:36:48.579 –> 00:36:53.259
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But we did have the power to do it through physical items.

00:36:53.619 –> 00:36:54.919
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that was really it.

00:36:54.919 –> 00:37:07.699
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, even, you know, as, as we speak, and I’m unsure when this will air, but, you know, Mumford and Sons released an album recently that landed in the top 10.

00:37:07.699 –> 00:37:14.519
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it was, you know, it sold, I want to say something like 42,000 equivalents.

00:37:14.519 –> 00:37:20.719
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But they’re one of the biggest artists in the entire world, you know, especially from a touring perspective.

00:37:20.799 –> 00:37:22.679
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that includes the US.

00:37:22.679 –> 00:37:40.899
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s just like it’s it’s seeing Imagine Dragons, you know, do I believe it was 28,000 first week and, you know, Glass Animals, the same and all of these like humongous acts and streaming just wasn’t working for certain genres.

00:37:40.899 –> 00:37:43.819
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I just couldn’t accept that.

00:37:43.819 –> 00:38:08.339
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, OK, well, I guess we’ll just, you know, this album just, yeah, won’t make the noise or won’t get noticed the the same way because people just aren’t caring about, you know, rock on the rock playlists as much as they care about other ones and just not wanting to accept that and seeing fandom and testing things out.

00:38:08.339 –> 00:38:14.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, I think it’s so many companies focus on the super fan.

00:38:15.379 –> 00:38:19.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And so, you know, the super fan is wildly important.

00:38:19.079 –> 00:38:36.719
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But I think that turning a casual fan into a super fan is the real key to, like, sustainable, a sustainable career is, you know, how do you make the normal fan, the one that listens to you occasionally?

00:38:36.719 –> 00:38:42.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: How do you give them an experience that they’re going to be a fan for life?

00:38:42.679 –> 00:38:46.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s not that difficult when it all boils down.

00:38:46.419 –> 00:38:49.199
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It’s really just a human touch.

00:38:49.199 –> 00:38:50.859
ROBONZO: That’s amazing.

00:38:50.979 –> 00:38:53.079
ROBONZO: It’s like saving rock.

00:38:53.079 –> 00:38:54.199
ROBONZO: When it mostly…

00:38:54.199 –> 00:38:57.759
ROBONZO: I mean, that’s the goal, you know?

00:38:57.759 –> 00:38:58.579
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:38:58.659 –> 00:38:59.479
ROBONZO: I mean, it’s so funny.

00:38:59.939 –> 00:39:16.519
ROBONZO: I just published two newsletters talking from slightly different perspectives about niche marketing for certain, like, sometimes an artist has stuff that sits okay on streaming and sometimes they have stuff, the same artist that doesn’t.

00:39:16.519 –> 00:39:40.339
ROBONZO: And so anyway, I’ve been writing about addressing the niche market and how much physical product can come into play and like the time spent trying to, you know, be on playlists versus the time spent to put together a physical product campaign and, you know, the dollars and all that stuff, the revenue difference.

00:39:40.419 –> 00:39:43.419
ROBONZO: It’s pretty incredible actually when you look at it.

00:39:43.419 –> 00:39:44.179
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah, it is.

00:39:44.639 –> 00:39:56.019
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, the algorithm is really taking over, especially at Spotify where, you know, people want to listen to things that, you know, the algorithm is feeding them.

00:39:56.259 –> 00:40:14.739
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It’s the days of, you know, if you got on Today’s Top Hits, which is remains their biggest playlist, but it used to be life changing for artists where like, oh my God, you know, that we are now going to stream an insane amount.

00:40:14.739 –> 00:40:16.219
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s changed.

00:40:16.219 –> 00:40:24.599
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, the editorial playlists have decreased in listenership and streams, and it’s the algorithm that people want.

00:40:24.599 –> 00:40:25.559
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I’m the same way.

00:40:25.939 –> 00:40:31.519
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I normally just want to hear things that I already know I like, and I can sing along to.

00:40:31.519 –> 00:40:40.319
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, when my algorithm hits the right way and reminds me of songs, then there’s no better feeling for me, right?

00:40:40.319 –> 00:40:56.919
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s like, well, then how do you break a new artist or a new album or, you know, as an independent artist, how do you get the attention if people only want to hear stuff that they already know and like or know they’re going to be inclined to like, you know?

00:40:57.679 –> 00:41:04.679
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it just frustrated me to know that, you know, we just didn’t stand a chance.

00:41:05.119 –> 00:41:13.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I think it’s only going to get worse with apps like Suno and, you know, AI music, you know.

00:41:13.419 –> 00:41:23.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I think I read that Suno was uploading something like 60,000 new songs a day to, I think it was to Deezer in France or something.

00:41:23.619 –> 00:41:28.379
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It was a very obscure kind of number like that to an obscure platform.

00:41:28.379 –> 00:41:32.679
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But it’s only going to keep, you know, snowballing.

00:41:32.679 –> 00:41:48.579
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, like in the short term, you know, major labels and whoever are going to license their music to these AI apps and, you know, they’ll have profit from that and it’ll be great and all of that.

00:41:48.659 –> 00:42:03.899
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But I think the long term is based in physical and is based in building fandom and is based in, you know, allowing people to stream it to when they want to hear it, but also feel a piece of ownership.

00:42:03.899 –> 00:42:08.839
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And touring and merchandise and all of that stuff will always be the most important.

00:42:08.839 –> 00:42:18.239
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But I think just as important now is offering, you know, a product that represents, you know, your body of work.

00:42:19.499 –> 00:42:21.119
ROBONZO: That’s good to hear.

00:42:21.119 –> 00:42:24.499
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah, and I’m someone that, again, I worked at Spotify for two years.

00:42:24.499 –> 00:42:27.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, it was a very different time.

00:42:27.419 –> 00:42:32.259
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It was, you know, when Taylor Swift was, you know, off the platform.

00:42:32.259 –> 00:42:38.819
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, we were fighting for, you know, Apple Music was getting exclusives from artists.

00:42:38.819 –> 00:42:40.459
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And there wasn’t parody.

00:42:40.459 –> 00:42:42.039
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it was a very different time.

00:42:42.359 –> 00:42:45.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it felt it feels like forever ago.

00:42:45.339 –> 00:42:47.439
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It was a decade ago, I guess, at this point.

00:42:47.439 –> 00:42:53.399
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But I have nothing but respect for my friends who work at the platforms.

00:42:53.399 –> 00:42:55.099
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I just don’t think it’s the same.

00:42:55.339 –> 00:43:00.919
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I think, you know, consumers change, fans change, you know.

00:43:01.239 –> 00:43:03.099
THOM SKARZYNSKY: They want what they want.

00:43:03.099 –> 00:43:05.919
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, I’m the same way.

00:43:05.919 –> 00:43:11.279
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I, you know, I want to listen to the albums I know I love already.

00:43:11.499 –> 00:43:15.199
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I, I, it takes me a long time to get through a new album.

00:43:15.199 –> 00:43:24.219
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, it’s, if anything can help that along and make the experience better for me, I’m all on board for it.

00:43:24.219 –> 00:43:26.179
ROBONZO: Yeah, I can relate.

00:43:26.179 –> 00:43:41.559
ROBONZO: So, you know, in that interview article that I mentioned, you’d also talked about the direct to fan or direct to consumer shift, from being like a transactional layer to being an operating system for fandom.

00:43:41.559 –> 00:43:44.459
ROBONZO: So what does that mean practically?

00:43:44.459 –> 00:43:51.879
ROBONZO: So, like, in other words, what does operating system for fandom actually mean for an independent artist trying to implement it?

00:43:51.879 –> 00:43:57.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You own every, every step of your web store.

00:43:57.079 –> 00:43:59.499
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You own the experience that the fans have.

00:43:59.499 –> 00:44:00.679
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You own the messaging.

00:44:01.439 –> 00:44:07.679
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You own the experience of purchasing on there.

00:44:08.339 –> 00:44:17.499
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You own, you know, what happens after someone purchases and do they get, you know, you can send something in the mail.

00:44:17.499 –> 00:44:23.039
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, you can send them a postcard, you know, or something while they’re waiting for their product.

00:44:23.379 –> 00:44:30.779
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You own the experience of when they get what they ordered in the mail, if there’s anything else in there.

00:44:30.779 –> 00:44:49.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, if Taylor Swift can put Confetti in her, you know, 500,000 first week, you know, box sets, there’s no reason why, you know, you can’t add a personal touch into, you know, the box when somebody buys something.

00:44:49.419 –> 00:44:54.519
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that, for me, is like, it’s, you completely own the experience.

00:44:54.599 –> 00:44:59.879
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s, it’s only limited by how creative you can get with it.

00:44:59.879 –> 00:45:21.339
THOM SKARZYNSKY: If you want to, you know, if you want to call customers, like I mentioned earlier, or if, you know, include something handwritten for a few, or I’ve seen artists, you know, use Polaroid cameras and include custom Polaroids in, like, one of a kind Polaroids in packages.

00:45:21.339 –> 00:45:33.179
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And fans that receive it, you know, they talk to each other and there’s no better marketing than fan to fan, then, you know, it just means something.

00:45:33.179 –> 00:45:39.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So that’s really kind of what I meant by it is just, you own every step of it.

00:45:39.659 –> 00:45:46.579
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, you know, when someone goes to check out, like, the messaging is yours.

00:45:46.579 –> 00:45:55.859
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And yes, there’s best practices of, you know, you can do, you know, what they call an upsell where it’s, well, you know, thanks for putting this in your cart.

00:45:55.859 –> 00:45:57.319
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Do you also want to put this?

00:45:57.319 –> 00:45:59.799
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, sure, you can do that.

00:45:59.799 –> 00:46:05.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Or, you know, you can just include a nice message or a discount on something else.

00:46:05.619 –> 00:46:14.879
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Or, you know, it’s like, you know, it’s really only limited by, like, how creative you want to get.

00:46:14.919 –> 00:46:19.879
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, yeah, yeah, I mean, every step of it you own.

00:46:19.879 –> 00:46:25.939
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I think that, you know, the people that do it best are the ones who think about the fans.

00:46:25.939 –> 00:46:33.639
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, a stat that I learned, I mean, I guess a couple of years ago.

00:46:33.639 –> 00:46:58.879
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But the abandoned cart rate on music stores is like, I believe it was 76% on average, which means, like, 76% of people are going into a store, finding something they like, putting it into their cart, and then either forgetting about it, or maybe they see the shipping price and they don’t like it, or for some reason or another, they’re clicking out of it.

00:46:58.879 –> 00:47:17.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And if that’s the average, and fans are already inclined to bail on purchasing something from your store, then, you know, offering a poor or an impersonal experience on the store is not going to help that at all.

00:47:17.659 –> 00:47:34.199
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And you can message, usually, you know, if you have the email addresses, you can message people and, you know, remind them, hey, you have something in your cart, or, you know, studies were showing that you can do that up to four times before fans get turned off by it.

00:47:34.339 –> 00:47:41.939
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But it’s also like, why don’t you, you know, why don’t you try to nail it the first time?

00:47:41.939 –> 00:47:44.859
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, there are some artists that always do.

00:47:44.859 –> 00:47:52.919
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, you know, I would imagine Tyler, the creator’s abandoned cart rate is, you know, less than 50 percent.

00:47:52.919 –> 00:47:56.899
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I’ve been told that Zach Brian, you know, is less than 50 percent.

00:47:56.899 –> 00:48:02.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And there’s humongous artists that, you know, when they release something, people buy it.

00:48:02.819 –> 00:48:05.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And they don’t often bail.

00:48:05.619 –> 00:48:14.859
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But for most of it, it’s, you know, people want to spend their money wisely and, you know, have second thoughts about things.

00:48:14.859 –> 00:48:18.939
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s just, you know, how do you prevent that?

00:48:19.199 –> 00:48:24.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You offer a better experience, a more personal experience.

00:48:24.339 –> 00:48:34.239
ROBONZO: What mistakes do you see independent artists make early on with, like, with physical products and what and that you’ve seen corrected in successful campaigns?

00:48:34.239 –> 00:48:46.719
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Um, I mean, it comes down to if somebody is going to invest in ordering something physical, I really do.

00:48:46.719 –> 00:49:01.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It disappoints me anytime I see an independent artist or, you know, a major label artist just ship it in, you know, whatever it is, a padded envelope kind of thing.

00:49:01.419 –> 00:49:01.739
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah.

00:49:01.739 –> 00:49:04.039
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it just feels thrown together.

00:49:04.039 –> 00:49:05.779
THOM SKARZYNSKY: There’s no experience behind it.

00:49:05.779 –> 00:49:08.039
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Sometimes your item is damaged.

00:49:08.039 –> 00:49:12.819
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Sometimes it’s not, but it’s just like, okay, I got this now.

00:49:12.819 –> 00:49:18.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, I think that it’s easily fixable.

00:49:19.919 –> 00:49:22.019
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You don’t have to handwrite every single letter.

00:49:22.019 –> 00:49:34.099
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You can do one and you can photocopy it, but include something in there that a fan can, you know, look at alongside their new item, you know?

00:49:34.099 –> 00:49:39.879
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, the best companies that even sell candles do the same thing, right?

00:49:39.879 –> 00:49:49.579
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, it’s like, you know, it’s very easy to just go the extra step and like put some thought into it.

00:49:49.579 –> 00:49:56.039
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I understand how overwhelming it can be if you have a lot of, you know, orders and a lot to ship out.

00:49:56.039 –> 00:50:03.879
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But it’s also, you know, you can lose a lot by not putting the extra effort in.

00:50:04.039 –> 00:50:07.179
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that’s like 101 for me.

00:50:07.179 –> 00:50:11.099
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Two is just, you know, overpricing.

00:50:11.099 –> 00:50:13.879
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I understand that everybody’s hurting for money.

00:50:14.339 –> 00:50:20.399
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, if you can make a little bit more, it sustains you and people have families.

00:50:20.399 –> 00:50:23.019
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And listen, I get it completely.

00:50:23.019 –> 00:50:26.459
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But the fan is feeling the same, you know?

00:50:26.459 –> 00:50:29.559
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, they’re deciding where to spend their money.

00:50:29.559 –> 00:50:45.499
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, if you’re charging, you know, $5 more than you need to be, or that most other artists are doing, it’s like, it’s just, it’s a poor fan experience without anything even going wrong.

00:50:45.499 –> 00:50:53.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It’s just like, man, you know, I didn’t want to pay this much, but, you know, I guess it is what it is.

00:50:53.079 –> 00:50:59.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And the last thing I’ll throw out there, because I’ve seen so many artists try this, and it drives me nuts.

00:50:59.619 –> 00:51:06.959
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And this isn’t a shot at Taylor Swift at all, because I know she did, like, a version of this, but she did it the right way.

00:51:07.579 –> 00:51:20.719
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But when you make fans order multiple items to, like, you know, create an image, like, if you buy these four vinyl, it, you know, you’ll get an image, or, you know, it turns into this.

00:51:20.719 –> 00:51:27.559
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, Taylor Swift, yes, I think it was a clock that, for her Midnight’s campaign, that it turned into.

00:51:27.559 –> 00:51:32.059
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But it wasn’t, you know, I don’t think her fans felt as poorly about it.

00:51:32.159 –> 00:51:42.739
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But any time I have to buy extra and I’m not excited about the extra is a problem.

00:51:42.739 –> 00:51:47.699
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You know, like, when I get an upsell and it says, do you also want to add this into your cart?

00:51:47.699 –> 00:51:52.239
THOM SKARZYNSKY: If it’s something I think is really interesting, I’m all for it.

00:51:52.239 –> 00:51:57.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I’m excited to purchase it and to check out, you know?

00:51:57.419 –> 00:52:04.719
THOM SKARZYNSKY: If I feel like I’m being forced to get something because it unlocks something else, that’s a bad experience.

00:52:04.719 –> 00:52:08.759
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that’s also like you feel taken advantage of.

00:52:08.759 –> 00:52:13.399
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I don’t think independent artists intend on that.

00:52:13.399 –> 00:52:16.739
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I think that they look at it as a sales tactic.

00:52:16.739 –> 00:52:30.339
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But, you know, in the long term, you got to think just like, you know, super fans are always going to, you know, that they’re going to be the livelihood for your future.

00:52:30.339 –> 00:52:34.219
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And if you’re treating them poorly, you’re going to lose them.

00:52:35.979 –> 00:52:39.439
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that, you know, makes a big difference.

00:52:39.439 –> 00:52:40.299
ROBONZO: Sure.

00:52:40.299 –> 00:52:42.059
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I’m sure you’ve seen it too, you know?

00:52:42.059 –> 00:52:49.679
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, it’s like, you know, it’s just, there’s just certain things that, it just drives me nuts.

00:52:49.679 –> 00:53:03.459
ROBONZO: Yeah, I’m sure they imagine it’s cool, but they maybe didn’t ask them themselves some of the questions that you were posing there, you know, about, well, how’s the fan really going to receive this or, you know, is it as cool as you think it is, you know, or did they?

00:53:03.459 –> 00:53:08.799
ROBONZO: Man, maybe sometimes they’re testing it or whatever, and they’re just going to see what happens.

00:53:08.999 –> 00:53:22.759
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And by the way, I remember, I’m sorry, I will say, like, back in the day, Blink-182, when they released Take Off Your Pants and Jacket, I think there were three or four different versions that had secret songs on them.

00:53:22.759 –> 00:53:27.819
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it was like, you know, trying to find, you know, all the versions with the secret songs.

00:53:27.819 –> 00:53:36.339
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I remember as a kid having a lot of fun with that, like, you know, saving up my paycheck so I could buy multiple copies of that album.

00:53:36.339 –> 00:53:42.579
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But like, if I got a copy that had different secret songs, like, I was so excited about it.

00:53:42.579 –> 00:53:55.059
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So like, I understand that like, there’s been, it’s been done correctly before, even if maybe at the time not everybody was as excited about it as I was.

00:53:55.059 –> 00:54:07.639
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But it just nowadays, especially with streaming, like, don’t, don’t, people can can do it, you know, they’re paying $14.99 or whatever for, for their streaming platform.

00:54:07.639 –> 00:54:09.719
THOM SKARZYNSKY: They don’t have to purchase on your site.

00:54:09.719 –> 00:54:22.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, and, you know, if, if you’re giving them an ultimatum to buy more to get something, then it’s like, you know, you’ll see your abandoned cart rate rise pretty quickly.

00:54:22.139 –> 00:54:24.719
ROBONZO: So we have to think carefully about the add-ons.

00:54:24.719 –> 00:54:26.299
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Totally, totally.

00:54:26.299 –> 00:54:39.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, the whole experience, you should just, you know, think carefully about, you know, what are fans going to think when they see this and that, and this price and that price, and where are, how are things ordered on the store?

00:54:39.419 –> 00:54:43.159
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, you know, what are you presenting first, second, third?

00:54:43.279 –> 00:54:49.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, you know, the whole thing, you just want to curate based on your own fan base.

00:54:49.659 –> 00:54:51.159
Sure.

00:54:51.159 –> 00:55:16.679
ROBONZO: I was thinking that I’m really just asking this in case people who listen to our conversation don’t think about it for themselves or or maybe not as deeply as I thought I was as you were talking here in the last few moments, but we should probably think about like, are there retailers that we found kind of inspirational or sort of inform what we consider to be a great experience?

00:55:16.679 –> 00:55:22.559
ROBONZO: Because some some of them do, as you mentioned earlier, you know, they do or they don’t do little things that make all the all the difference.

00:55:22.559 –> 00:55:23.859
ROBONZO: And they might not even be.

00:55:24.139 –> 00:55:37.199
ROBONZO: It’s more thinking about your purchasing experience, even even and especially beyond music, because a lot of those things apply or can be applied to some of our own projects as independent artists.

00:55:38.359 –> 00:55:40.379
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah, you’re you’re so right.

00:55:40.379 –> 00:55:50.899
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And indie record stores, you know, there’s there’s some things somewhere between fifteen hundred and two thousand in the US from the latest I read.

00:55:50.899 –> 00:56:01.699
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, if you can give them, you know, your your best variant or, you know, I mean, for me, that’s always, you know, drive people to indie record stores.

00:56:01.699 –> 00:56:11.679
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It’s if you can get your stuff in Target and Walmart and Hot Topic and Urban Outfitters or Barnes and Noble, like excellent, great.

00:56:11.679 –> 00:56:17.119
THOM SKARZYNSKY: They’re not going to care about it as much as the indie record stores will care about it and will treat it.

00:56:17.119 –> 00:56:23.979
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, and and I understand, too, that not every market necessarily has an indie record store.

00:56:23.979 –> 00:56:28.059
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But for me, it’s it’s like they’re the holy grail.

00:56:28.059 –> 00:56:47.499
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I when I go to Target, if even if I go because I want to see if they have a vinyl, I usually end up leaving with a ton of other stuff and sometimes not the vinyl, you know, when I go to an indie record store, I leave with other stuff, but it’s usually what I came for and other music.

00:56:47.499 –> 00:56:52.299
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You know, it’s it’s like it’s just it’s an experience that I don’t know.

00:56:52.559 –> 00:56:56.479
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I always want to just drive people to Indies.

00:56:56.479 –> 00:56:56.779
ROBONZO: Sure.

00:56:56.779 –> 00:57:02.259
ROBONZO: And I would guess that for touring artists, it’s worth seeking those places out if they’re not in your own neighborhood.

00:57:02.699 –> 00:57:12.239
ROBONZO: Because, I mean, I’ve seen I’ve seen artists go places and you know, there’s a demand.

00:57:12.239 –> 00:57:19.559
ROBONZO: It might be small, but there’s a demand for the vinyl that they they brought or the CD.

00:57:19.559 –> 00:57:24.499
ROBONZO: But it wasn’t necessarily something that could happen the night of the show.

00:57:24.499 –> 00:57:27.279
ROBONZO: Maybe the fan wasn’t there.

00:57:27.279 –> 00:57:41.439
ROBONZO: Maybe the you know, the artist didn’t anticipate the inventory, but if they can get it in the hands of a store in that market, it might be worth it because also, you know, there’s just a long game of building a fan base in a new market, right?

00:57:41.439 –> 00:57:42.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Absolutely.

00:57:42.659 –> 00:57:50.859
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, sometimes the line alone at a merch table or wherever it is, turns me off from ordering there.

00:57:50.859 –> 00:57:56.799
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, the first thing I usually do is go online to see if I can just order what I want there.

00:57:57.539 –> 00:58:08.939
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And if I can’t, it’s like, you know, I either I have to make the decision of do I do I want to wait here for 20 minutes or do I want to just convince myself that I don’t need that item anyway.

00:58:08.939 –> 00:58:25.299
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, yeah, I mean, the last show I went to, I, you know, I got faced with exactly that problem and I found that the artists, you know, they’re kind of a legacy, you know, punk rock band that I just love.

00:58:25.419 –> 00:58:27.679
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And they didn’t have a store.

00:58:27.679 –> 00:58:30.099
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I ended up reaching out to them on Instagram.

00:58:30.099 –> 00:58:40.899
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It was like, you know, if if there’s any way for me to get that, you know, that green hoodie that you were selling, you know, at the show in Jersey the other night, I’ll do whatever.

00:58:40.899 –> 00:58:42.479
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I’ll pay whatever you you want.

00:58:42.479 –> 00:58:43.599
THOM SKARZYNSKY: It was so cool.

00:58:43.599 –> 00:58:48.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But, you know, I wasn’t able to hop on the line or whatever it was.

00:58:48.419 –> 00:58:53.479
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And they responded back, you know, they’re a smaller band at this point.

00:58:53.579 –> 00:58:57.859
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, they were like, you know what, we just launched our store, it’s on there.

00:58:57.859 –> 00:59:00.879
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, yeah, I went on there and I bought a whole bunch of stuff.

00:59:00.879 –> 00:59:02.759
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But it’s like, it’s very true.

00:59:02.759 –> 00:59:11.459
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, give people an opportunity to to pick up things that they might not be able to in the moment at a show.

00:59:11.459 –> 00:59:17.959
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Plus, like, everybody knows that, like, having to hold an item throughout an entire show is such a pain.

00:59:17.959 –> 00:59:19.239
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, like, people do it.

00:59:19.239 –> 00:59:31.299
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But, like, I don’t have fun holding a vinyl, you know, like, you know, for an hour and a half while I’m, you know, standing waiting for the band to go on or, you know, whatever it is.

00:59:31.299 –> 00:59:34.319
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And after the show, the table is always crazy.

00:59:34.319 –> 00:59:42.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So, you know, give other opportunities to to purchase it or to find it at least.

00:59:42.139 –> 00:59:43.839
ROBONZO: Yeah, it’s a good point.

00:59:43.839 –> 00:59:50.619
ROBONZO: What’s the one thing you wish every independent artist understood about physical products before they press their first record?

00:59:51.919 –> 00:59:54.819
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Oh, that’s such a good question.

00:59:54.819 –> 00:59:59.639
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You know, I’m going to go pretty simple on this one.

00:59:59.639 –> 01:00:04.879
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s like it’s also the most economical thing.

01:00:04.879 –> 01:00:08.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But don’t bite off more than you can chew.

01:00:08.139 –> 01:00:20.459
THOM SKARZYNSKY: There’s something to be said about scarcity and, you know, about something being, you know, the first pressing is, you know, it always flies the fastest.

01:00:20.459 –> 01:00:26.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Any artist I’ve worked with, if we sell a first pressing, people buy that and it sells out.

01:00:26.079 –> 01:00:28.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And those fans are so happy.

01:00:28.139 –> 01:00:36.859
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I think as an independent artist, you can, you know, do the same thing only you don’t have to call it the first pressing.

01:00:36.859 –> 01:00:38.799
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You just know it’s your first pressing.

01:00:38.799 –> 01:00:40.939
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, you want to sell out of it.

01:00:40.939 –> 01:00:44.719
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And once you do, you know, you can decide to order more of it.

01:00:44.719 –> 01:00:47.639
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Or if it’s flying, you know, you can always order more.

01:00:47.639 –> 01:01:00.999
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But, you know, I see a lot of artists that, and I work with a lot of artists and artist teams that they’re like, you know, we’re sitting on 8,000 copies of our latest record because we overordered.

01:01:00.999 –> 01:01:07.079
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, do you think you can help us with, you know, inventory sell through and things like that?

01:01:07.079 –> 01:01:09.099
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s hard.

01:01:09.399 –> 01:01:14.819
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Once, you know, once the moment’s passed, it’s, you know, it’s not easy.

01:01:15.259 –> 01:01:17.459
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, then people pay.

01:01:17.459 –> 01:01:19.819
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, they’ve paid for this product already.

01:01:19.819 –> 01:01:24.839
THOM SKARZYNSKY: So you’re in the hole, you know, until you sell enough to break even.

01:01:24.839 –> 01:01:39.479
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And a lot of times there’ll be, you know, a warehouse or a storage unit that you have to pay for just to house the products because, you know, no one is having 8,000 copies of an LP in their own home or not many people.

01:01:39.599 –> 01:01:47.519
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But, you know, I’ve seen so often artists overorder and I understand that you get better rates that way.

01:01:47.519 –> 01:01:52.699
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But only take in what you’re pretty positive you can sell through.

01:01:52.699 –> 01:01:56.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And then that’s a good problem to have if you do sell through it.

01:01:56.619 –> 01:01:58.979
ROBONZO: That’s great advice, man.

01:01:58.979 –> 01:02:02.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, I’ve seen it go wrong way too many times.

01:02:02.619 –> 01:02:11.139
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I will say as a quick anecdote, but I won’t say the artist because I want to be respectful.

01:02:11.139 –> 01:02:21.499
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But when I first started at a recent role that I had, an artist’s projection was pretty low for the album.

01:02:21.499 –> 01:02:25.019
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I went into my boss’s office at the time.

01:02:25.019 –> 01:02:31.379
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I had really put together a strong blueprint for selling physical for them.

01:02:32.179 –> 01:02:41.299
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I said, you know, I want to make the amount that I named of vinyl was double what the projection was.

01:02:41.299 –> 01:02:43.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that was just for vinyl.

01:02:44.379 –> 01:02:51.639
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, to be, I guess I can give some numbers, but their projection for all in first week was 40,000.

01:02:51.639 –> 01:02:55.699
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I went in and said, I want to make 80,000 vinyl.

01:02:55.699 –> 01:02:58.099
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And he looks me dead in the eye.

01:02:58.099 –> 01:03:01.339
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it was someone I’ve known since my first job.

01:03:02.219 –> 01:03:05.739
THOM SKARZYNSKY: One of the best people that I’ve ever worked for.

01:03:05.739 –> 01:03:09.259
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And he just said, you will be fired.

01:03:09.259 –> 01:03:15.779
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like if this does not sell through and we’re sitting on it, there is no chance of you keeping this job.

01:03:15.779 –> 01:03:23.959
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And this was within a couple weeks of me starting at the role that I was so grateful to have.

01:03:23.959 –> 01:03:27.359
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And at the time it was like, you know what?

01:03:27.559 –> 01:03:28.339
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I believe in it.

01:03:28.339 –> 01:03:30.059
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Well, we’re going to sell through it.

01:03:30.159 –> 01:03:31.459
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, let’s go.

01:03:31.459 –> 01:03:34.279
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, you know, I need you to, can you please sign off on this?

01:03:34.279 –> 01:03:36.059
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And he did and we did sell through it.

01:03:36.059 –> 01:03:39.839
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, we had a great campaign and we got lucky.

01:03:39.839 –> 01:03:42.259
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But it’s true.

01:03:42.259 –> 01:03:48.739
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like, if a major label is saying, if you overorder, like that’s a fireable offense.

01:03:48.739 –> 01:03:51.319
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And, you know, it’s not like a common thing.

01:03:51.319 –> 01:03:56.439
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But like, just think about, you know, what you can do, you know?

01:03:57.899 –> 01:04:01.799
ROBONZO: Yeah, you’re reminding me of the old investing advice.

01:04:01.799 –> 01:04:08.559
ROBONZO: But take the money that you think you can take, you know, in revenue and profitability.

01:04:08.559 –> 01:04:16.339
ROBONZO: And don’t lament that you think you could move on to the next, you know, the next project and just try to learn.

01:04:16.339 –> 01:04:22.639
ROBONZO: And I would imagine that being conservative for the indie artists definitely can pay off.

01:04:22.639 –> 01:04:23.999
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah, exactly.

01:04:24.139 –> 01:04:35.099
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I mean, there’s so many tools right now at the disposal of an indie artist that, there’s so many things that you don’t need from a major record label.

01:04:35.099 –> 01:04:37.839
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And there’s only so much you can control.

01:04:37.839 –> 01:04:39.519
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And that goes for everybody.

01:04:39.519 –> 01:04:47.639
THOM SKARZYNSKY: You know, I spoke with someone powerful in the industry earlier today about a role.

01:04:47.639 –> 01:04:54.759
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And his best line was, The one thing I realized is nobody knows what they’re doing.

01:04:54.759 –> 01:05:01.919
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it’s like, yes, you know, like, I have no idea what’s going to work and what’s not going to work.

01:05:01.919 –> 01:05:05.639
THOM SKARZYNSKY: But I think that you can play it safe.

01:05:05.639 –> 01:05:07.939
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And if it works, excellent.

01:05:08.459 –> 01:05:18.119
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And if it doesn’t, then at least, you know, you’re not financially ruined because you went for too much.

01:05:18.239 –> 01:05:18.859
ROBONZO: Right.

01:05:18.859 –> 01:05:20.759
ROBONZO: Well, OK.

01:05:20.759 –> 01:05:34.959
ROBONZO: So I know that happened at happiness.llc and then looking for Tom with an H in there, Thom Skarzynski on, I know at least LinkedIn and Instagram.

01:05:34.959 –> 01:05:36.099
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Yeah, yeah, on Instagram.

01:05:36.179 –> 01:05:40.159
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I’m just ThomS, ThomS.

01:05:42.439 –> 01:05:48.619
THOM SKARZYNSKY: I very luckily got that handle and I’m holding on to it.

01:05:51.099 –> 01:06:01.379
ROBONZO: Well, it sounds like you’re doing good things and I encourage people to contact you if they’re about the work that you do, if they feel like they’re in the right place to do it.

01:06:01.379 –> 01:06:04.319
ROBONZO: If nothing else, just go read about some of the things that you’ve done.

01:06:04.379 –> 01:06:05.839
ROBONZO: It’s all pretty interesting.

01:06:05.839 –> 01:06:09.299
ROBONZO: Some of the bands you’ve worked with and the career that you’ve had.

01:06:09.299 –> 01:06:09.859
ROBONZO: Of course.

01:06:09.859 –> 01:06:13.739
ROBONZO: I’ll put a link to that interview that I mentioned a couple of times in here.

01:06:13.739 –> 01:06:22.159
ROBONZO: I thought it was pretty good and I’ll probably go back and reread it because I had to kind of breeze through it pretty quick, trying to get some background for today.

01:06:22.159 –> 01:06:26.459
ROBONZO: But yeah, it looked like good stuff and I really appreciate your time today.

01:06:26.459 –> 01:06:29.859
ROBONZO: I think this is going to be great information for listeners.

01:06:31.439 –> 01:06:33.479
THOM SKARZYNSKY: No, I appreciate yours even more.

01:06:33.479 –> 01:06:39.379
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And yes, any independent artist who’s listening to this, feel free to reach out.

01:06:39.379 –> 01:06:45.199
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Like you mentioned, it’s just happiness.llc or find me on LinkedIn or Instagram.

01:06:45.199 –> 01:06:47.659
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I’m pretty good at getting back to messages.

01:06:47.659 –> 01:06:52.099
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Sometimes it takes me a second, but I get fulfillment out of helping.

01:06:52.099 –> 01:06:55.499
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And I want to be able to help out.

01:06:55.499 –> 01:07:03.419
THOM SKARZYNSKY: And it doesn’t necessarily matter to me, how much money you have or whatever your situation is.

01:07:03.419 –> 01:07:09.459
THOM SKARZYNSKY: Just reach out and let’s talk about your plans and how we can get there.

01:07:09.459 –> 01:07:09.879
ROBONZO: That’s great.

01:07:09.879 –> 01:07:12.559
ROBONZO: It’s good talking with you, man.

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01:08:30.159 –> 01:08:31.539
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01:08:31.539 –> 01:08:33.719
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