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ROBONZO: Welcome to another episode of The Unstarving Musician.

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ROBONZO: I’m Robonzo.

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ROBONZO: This is my podcast.

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ROBONZO: The podcast features interviews with independent musicians, artists and creative professionals who share their experience and expertise on recording, touring, gigs, the creative process, marketing and much more.

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ROBONZO: I also drop solo episodes in that focus on themes for my conversations, research and off-mic interviews.

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ROBONZO: It is all intended to help independent creatives better understand the marketing business and creative processes that empower us to do more of what we love, create work that matters.

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ROBONZO: Today’s episode is a conversation with Ezra Vancil.

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ROBONZO: He’s a return guest to the podcast.

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ROBONZO: We talk about his 10 years with the same band, launching his own label, and what he’s learned about sustainable music careers and systems.

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ROBONZO: Before getting into that, I want to mention that Ace Freely, founding member, guitarist of Kiss, died this month of October at 74.

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ROBONZO: I know he’s going to be missed.

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ROBONZO: I know he was a big influence on a lot of guitar players that I grew up with, and I thought he was pretty cool when I was a kid.

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ROBONZO: So rest in peace, Ace.

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ROBONZO: I’m going to share a reader response from a longtime listener and reader George Brandow.

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ROBONZO: He checks out the podcast from time to time and subscribes to Liner Notes.

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ROBONZO: George wrote or responded on why our creative projects die, where the actual issue is we commit to projects based on their potential, the dream outcome, the fantasy version where everything works perfectly and people throw roses at our feet, but we never consider the pain required to sustain them.

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ROBONZO: So George says, quote, as the old timers say, slow and steady as she goes, as 12-step groups say, one day at a time, to which I responded, do you think it’s true that a lot of creative people don’t understand this?

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ROBONZO: As I was writing it and as often happens, I wonder, is this true?

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ROBONZO: Are people this dense?

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ROBONZO: But then I recall that just last year I was trying to squeeze another project into my already crowded bandwidth, so yeah, it’s true.

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ROBONZO: And George responded, quote, for some of us, it’s our nature to constantly try to be productive and then get interested in a new project.

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ROBONZO: Leave one thing, start another.

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ROBONZO: It’s a circle between distraction and procrastination.

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ROBONZO: Then we get into our heads and think, what’s the point of it all?

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ROBONZO: I think it’s just our artistic process.

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ROBONZO: But we all need to give ourselves a break, literally, downtime, away from our usually productive routine.

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ROBONZO: I call them just say no days.

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ROBONZO: I now put them on the calendar, just like a gig.

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ROBONZO: Rest, unplug, turn it off, just be.

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ROBONZO: It helps with all the madness in life.

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ROBONZO: Rest, my friend, like meditation is not easy.

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ROBONZO: The LinerNotes edition George was responding to was, as mentioned, on Why Our Creative Projects Die.

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ROBONZO: LinerNotes Insider subscribers received four special resources, including a PDF that I called the One Thing Decision Framework, which is a systematic approach to choosing your focus when everything feels important.

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ROBONZO: I’ll be honest, I’m going to have to try this system myself.

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ROBONZO: My strategic focus for the past two quarters has been on subscriber growth for this newsletter and for the podcast, but I realized after putting this last edition of LinerNotes together that I have no good buffers in place, and there are a couple of other projects I want to eventually pursue, so yeah, to be continued.

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ROBONZO: You can get LinerNotes for free at unstarvingmusician.com.

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ROBONZO: It’s a newsletter filled with insights based on research and hundreds of conversations with creators building sustainable careers.

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ROBONZO: Like I said, it’s free.

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ROBONZO: You can unsubscribe at any time, and you’ll get info on how to become a LinerNotes insider, giving you access to resources like the one I just mentioned, guides, templates and more.

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ROBONZO: So yes, in today’s conversation, Ezra Vancil reveals the productivity frameworks he’s borrowed from his marketing day job and how they kind of transformed his creative output and family dynamics.

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ROBONZO: Family dynamics.

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ROBONZO: We discuss the Fear as a Compass approach that guides his creative decisions, why he sold his last album direct for a year before streaming it, and the revenue impact of doing so, how business systems thinking improved his relationships with band members and family, his 5am to 8am creative routine that produced a 14 month project that turned into a double album while working full time, the house concert preparation framework that turns parties into professional events, among other things.

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ROBONZO: A quick note before we dive into the conversation, Ezra also shares several business systems frameworks in the conversation, his pre-release strategy, his creative routine, his approach to house concerts.

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ROBONZO: I’m going to break down the implementation steps with resources in the upcoming liner notes newsletter.

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ROBONZO: The free edition is going to cover highlights, but liner notes insider will be a complete music careers of business system framework with action steps that you can use.

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ROBONZO: You can sign up at unstarvingmusician.com.

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ROBONZO: There will be a link in the show notes and also I’ll put links in the show notes for Ezra’s previous appearances on the podcast, which were all great conversations.

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ROBONZO: Here’s me talking with Ezra Vancil.

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, we are now an empty nesters out there in the woods.

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ROBONZO: What’s Cozi doing?

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ROBONZO: Where’d she go?

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EZRA VANCIL: She got married.

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EZRA VANCIL: What?

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ROBONZO: How old is she?

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EZRA VANCIL: She’s 18.

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ROBONZO: Oh my goodness.

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ROBONZO: She’s still making music?

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, we’re actually about to…

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EZRA VANCIL: Well, we just broke around on our new album down at the land.

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EZRA VANCIL: And so we’re finishing a new album and we’ll be out playing again pretty soon.

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ROBONZO: Wait, so this is a side of the morning and midnight project.

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ROBONZO: I guess that one’s been finished, but you’re right doing the marketing for it now.

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EZRA VANCIL: I’m doing the marketing for that, the double one.

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EZRA VANCIL: It’s in limited release.

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EZRA VANCIL: And then Cozi is all over that album, though.

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EZRA VANCIL: And so she probably should have got just a feature on the whole album, but she’s on quite a few songs.

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ROBONZO: Cool.

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ROBONZO: Well, you know, it probably was a good experience to work in that capacity and be recorded that way for her.

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EZRA VANCIL: Oh yeah.

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EZRA VANCIL: She’s grown so much as a musician.

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ROBONZO: That’s cool.

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ROBONZO: What about her husband?

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ROBONZO: Is he is he in on the on the action too?

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EZRA VANCIL: He has sat in with us a few times.

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EZRA VANCIL: He’s a pretty, like, I would say, savant kind of musician.

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EZRA VANCIL: He’s like incredible.

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EZRA VANCIL: He can just pick up anything.

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EZRA VANCIL: We haven’t, you know, it’s kind of complicated to bring a young married couple into a band because it’s already tense, you know, when we’re playing.

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EZRA VANCIL: And so we’ve kind of tiptoed around and we’ve brought him in on a few shows.

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EZRA VANCIL: And it’s all up to him if he wants to jump in full-fledged.

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ROBONZO: Kind of tense.

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

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EZRA VANCIL: Well, I mean, already it’s tense, just getting ready for shows and playing.

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EZRA VANCIL: And me and Cozi have developed a relationship where we can be tense and be okay.

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EZRA VANCIL: But, you know, you throw a new person in there and it might be too much.

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ROBONZO: So I’ve never seen you play and obviously never worked with you.

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ROBONZO: Are you like kind of intense when you’re doing all that?

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ROBONZO: Or is it just the nature of like being nervous and wanting things to go just right?

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EZRA VANCIL: Oh, wow.

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

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EZRA VANCIL: In fact, so we kind of had like a about two years into Cozi and a Flounder, I guess you call it like a come to Jesus with me because I am very intense.

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EZRA VANCIL: Like I’m almost laid back guy.

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EZRA VANCIL: But if during rehearsal and getting ready for shows, I’m just serious and I’m business.

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EZRA VANCIL: And Cozi like confronted me and was like, I’m not doing this anymore unless you, you know, you got to change the way you’re treating me.

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EZRA VANCIL: And it was really good for me because I realized that I don’t, in that relationship and music relationship, I don’t have a lot of empathy or I’m not very nice.

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EZRA VANCIL: And it really changed how I’m more thoughtful now because I have to be with Cozi.

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EZRA VANCIL: And it’s made me that way with everybody I work with now.

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EZRA VANCIL: And it wasn’t like intentionally, it’s just, I’m just all business in.

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EZRA VANCIL: And she’s kind of brought this relational thing into our band, which has really been neat for me.

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EZRA VANCIL: It helps me relax a lot more and let things happen and not worry so much if, you know, if it’s not working out exactly how I want it, you know?

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EZRA VANCIL: And so I can be pretty tense.

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EZRA VANCIL: I think I probably have some relationships back in the past in bands that I’ve been too hard on people.

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ROBONZO: I was asking, I was thinking about it because as soon as you, I don’t know what you said, oh, just the, it’s already tense, I think you said.

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ROBONZO: And I was thinking, you know, I’ve been fronting a band and then I was playing drums in another one that I just stopped working with.

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ROBONZO: Out of frustration, honestly.

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ROBONZO: But yeah, I was thinking to myself suddenly like, yeah, I’m kind of intense.

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ROBONZO: I mean, well, I am.

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ROBONZO: But the weird thing is with this new thing I’m fronting, it’s a little weird, it’s a little forgiving in a weird way.

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ROBONZO: But the guys that I’m working with are so agreeable.

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ROBONZO: So sometimes that’s not good, but, you know, and I do tell them from time to time like, I want your opinion, you know.

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ROBONZO: But I guess it’s cultural, but it may be a little bit personality as well.

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ROBONZO: Just happen to have one of them’s very young.

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ROBONZO: They’re all younger than me.

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ROBONZO: One of them is very young, so he’s just, you know, kind of finding his way and who he is.

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ROBONZO: And the guitar player is like, he plays a lot.

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ROBONZO: He’s a very accomplished musician.

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ROBONZO: And but he’s just kind of easy going, you know.

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ROBONZO: He’s got his own way of pushing back without even, without, you don’t even realize that’s what he’s doing until after the fact.

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ROBONZO: And the drummer is just like, yeah, man, as you wish.

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ROBONZO: That’s a very common thing I hear from them, as you wish.

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, that would be hard for me.

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EZRA VANCIL: I think I kind of thrive in the tension.

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EZRA VANCIL: And the people that have stayed with me actually enjoy it.

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EZRA VANCIL: Because, like I said, I don’t, I hope I’m not mean tense.

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EZRA VANCIL: But the tension of things to me brings out the importance of what we’re doing.

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EZRA VANCIL: And in the same way you just said, I want to hear people, their opinion.

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EZRA VANCIL: I want, you know, someone to challenge if an idea isn’t good.

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EZRA VANCIL: It’s the same way as business.

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EZRA VANCIL: I really appreciate people that have the courage to like challenge ideas.

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EZRA VANCIL: I mean, I really appreciate that, like in business, because I’m not always right.

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EZRA VANCIL: And if you’re front in a band, in the past, I’ve had people that are just kind of sit back.

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EZRA VANCIL: But what happens is they get hurt or dissatisfied.

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EZRA VANCIL: And I have no idea, you know, because nothing was ever said.

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EZRA VANCIL: So I’d rather it all kind of just come out in the mess.

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EZRA VANCIL: And let’s work on it.

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EZRA VANCIL: And so I do, I think I kind of thrive on it.

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EZRA VANCIL: I’ve just matured a little bit where I can kind of sense when I’ve gone over the top and need to create space for someone to speak.

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ROBONZO: That’s interesting.

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ROBONZO: Well, and I imagine that the ones who have stayed with you just said that they enjoy the end result.

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ROBONZO: So they’re totally fine with the generally fine with the way things work.

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EZRA VANCIL: Absolutely.

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, especially like if my videos, if you look at them over the years, over a decade, it’s are more, it’s about the same people involved.

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EZRA VANCIL: And those people just enjoy what we do.

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EZRA VANCIL: And it’s intense because we’re trying to make a video in like eight hours.

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EZRA VANCIL: And there is some kind of joy in that because you do feel like it’s important.

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EZRA VANCIL: It like puts a flagpole in that part of your life.

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EZRA VANCIL: Like, wow, I can’t believe we did that, you know?

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EZRA VANCIL: And it just makes, I don’t know, to me, I don’t know how to create without some tension in there.

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EZRA VANCIL: You know?

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ROBONZO: Yeah, I think it also just part of trying to get things right, isn’t it?

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, it is.

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EZRA VANCIL: And trying to get visions aligned, you know, it takes a little of breaking down that outer shell that everybody has in the world, you know, in the music.

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EZRA VANCIL: That outer shell has to be broken down because you’re like in this strange kind of intimate relationship with these people of creating something together.

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EZRA VANCIL: And you can’t do it with the persona that you walk around in the world with, you know, your real self has to kind of come out, I think.

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ROBONZO: Yeah.

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ROBONZO: So, the single that I contacted you about, Baby Love, has it been weeks since you made it?

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, October 1st.

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ROBONZO: Okay.

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ROBONZO: Well, that’s not recent.

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ROBONZO: I think, I mean, I was searching through emails.

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ROBONZO: October 1st, you said?

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EZRA VANCIL: Yes.

00:13:51.020 –> 00:13:52.860
ROBONZO: But when did you send an email out?

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ROBONZO: Like, did you send like a pre-release email?

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, I did a whole big pre-release just to my mailing list.

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EZRA VANCIL: And I think that was the end of, maybe the beginning of September, maybe the end of August.

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ROBONZO: Okay.

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EZRA VANCIL: And so there was a lot of emails going out for a little while there.

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ROBONZO: Okay.

00:14:13.340 –> 00:14:16.500
ROBONZO: Yeah, that’s the one that caught my attention.

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ROBONZO: It’s a great song and the album sounds really nice.

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ROBONZO: It’s kind of got some new stylistic sort of textures on it, I think, for you, based on what I know about your work.

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

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EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, it was a, it was kind of a dream album.

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EZRA VANCIL: And I just went, you know, when you’re making a double album, it’s like, let’s just go to town and do all the things I’ve always wanted to do.

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EZRA VANCIL: And so it kind of has the kitchen sink in there.

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ROBONZO: Yeah, that’s cool.

00:14:47.100 –> 00:14:52.540
ROBONZO: And how, what, approximately how long did it take to do it?

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EZRA VANCIL: It took, it was one, almost just a full year of recording to make, to do it.

00:14:59.980 –> 00:15:06.320
EZRA VANCIL: And I think, I think it was wrapped totally in about 14 months.

00:15:06.320 –> 00:15:09.080
EZRA VANCIL: So that’s how long it took to record it.

00:15:09.080 –> 00:15:22.960
EZRA VANCIL: The writing of it, that’s, that’s a little more complicated because the two sides, Midnight is made up of songs that were at least started during the divorce period of me and my wife.

00:15:22.960 –> 00:15:24.600
EZRA VANCIL: We went through a divorce.

00:15:24.600 –> 00:15:26.700
EZRA VANCIL: We’re together now, Hallie.

00:15:26.700 –> 00:15:28.260
ROBONZO: You and Hallie divorced and you’re together?

00:15:28.260 –> 00:15:28.920
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:15:28.920 –> 00:15:29.180
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:15:29.180 –> 00:15:31.120
EZRA VANCIL: We had the papers on the court docket.

00:15:31.120 –> 00:15:38.700
EZRA VANCIL: They just, and we separated and we just never signed the papers and we ended up just getting back together.

00:15:38.700 –> 00:15:40.100
ROBONZO: I did not know all this.

00:15:42.980 –> 00:15:45.740
ROBONZO: Lots of things can happen between conversations, huh?

00:15:45.740 –> 00:15:46.420
ROBONZO: Right.

00:15:46.420 –> 00:15:46.660
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:15:46.660 –> 00:15:47.960
EZRA VANCIL: Well, this happened before.

00:15:47.960 –> 00:15:52.240
EZRA VANCIL: This was probably 10 years ago, I think, was the divorce.

00:15:52.440 –> 00:15:54.860
EZRA VANCIL: I probably just didn’t talk about it.

00:15:55.060 –> 00:16:00.480
EZRA VANCIL: I probably was still wounded from it at the time.

00:16:00.480 –> 00:16:01.840
ROBONZO: Well, we didn’t.

00:16:01.840 –> 00:16:02.880
ROBONZO: Well, yeah, it could be.

00:16:02.880 –> 00:16:05.540
ROBONZO: We talked for the first time around 2018.

00:16:07.020 –> 00:16:08.320
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, it was before that.

00:16:08.480 –> 00:16:10.340
EZRA VANCIL: It was a few years before that.

00:16:10.340 –> 00:16:13.460
ROBONZO: So possibly it was parts of it were fresh.

00:16:13.480 –> 00:16:14.180
ROBONZO: I don’t know.

00:16:14.180 –> 00:16:15.260
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:16:15.260 –> 00:16:15.540
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:16:15.540 –> 00:16:20.520
EZRA VANCIL: It was it was a long like we were separated for a year.

00:16:20.520 –> 00:16:28.900
EZRA VANCIL: And then I would say it took us two or three years to get where we were just comfortable again in our marriage.

00:16:30.520 –> 00:16:34.720
EZRA VANCIL: Just so we probably, yeah, we’re not talking about it too much at that time.

00:16:36.220 –> 00:16:44.860
ROBONZO: So many of the songs for the Midnight part of the Doubles album that comes from that period.

00:16:44.860 –> 00:16:45.540
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:16:45.540 –> 00:16:45.740
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:16:45.740 –> 00:17:02.420
EZRA VANCIL: In fact, I had just finished an album and I was looking for my next project and I found a hard drive with these like partially started songs and they were all kind of written during that period of that divorce and I was like, man, I need to do something with these.

00:17:03.220 –> 00:17:07.460
EZRA VANCIL: And those became, for the most part, Midnight.

00:17:09.720 –> 00:17:11.660
EZRA VANCIL: And then Morning happened.

00:17:11.660 –> 00:17:22.240
EZRA VANCIL: I didn’t mean to make a double album, but while I started finishing those songs, I just started getting all these new songs that were more about this period now in my life.

00:17:22.240 –> 00:17:26.700
EZRA VANCIL: And so, Midmorning is songs that are more about right now.

00:17:26.700 –> 00:17:28.740
EZRA VANCIL: And then so it’s kind of Midnight.

00:17:29.620 –> 00:17:36.300
EZRA VANCIL: It’s my wordplay on it, Morning and Midnight, is because back then I used to write.

00:17:36.300 –> 00:17:40.960
EZRA VANCIL: I was a night person and I would do all my music at night.

00:17:40.960 –> 00:17:50.600
EZRA VANCIL: And I switched over some period, well, probably when I started a real job, into doing all my music before work.

00:17:50.600 –> 00:17:54.520
EZRA VANCIL: And I get up real early and I have about two, three hours before work.

00:17:55.500 –> 00:18:00.340
EZRA VANCIL: And so they have kind of different plays with the word, the words morning and midnight.

00:18:00.340 –> 00:18:06.860
EZRA VANCIL: One of them is that it truly is these songs were written in the middle of the night and these songs were written early in the morning.

00:18:06.860 –> 00:18:08.640
ROBONZO: So what is your schedule?

00:18:08.640 –> 00:18:12.720
ROBONZO: Like you get up at and you go to bed at?

00:18:12.720 –> 00:18:18.100
EZRA VANCIL: During the album, it’s kind of changed since I got off finished with that.

00:18:18.100 –> 00:18:29.480
EZRA VANCIL: It was get up at five and then I would work on music until about 8.30, well eight ish and then that’s when the phone call started for work.

00:18:29.480 –> 00:18:38.240
EZRA VANCIL: And then I might have after work, I might have an hour after work where I would polish up some of the music I was working on that morning.

00:18:38.240 –> 00:18:41.280
EZRA VANCIL: Now I’m kind of a 6 a.m.

00:18:41.280 –> 00:18:49.680
EZRA VANCIL: guy and I get a couple hours of rehearsal and writing and then eight or nine work starts.

00:18:49.680 –> 00:18:50.900
ROBONZO: Do you work from home mostly?

00:18:51.980 –> 00:18:53.000
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, mostly.

00:18:53.000 –> 00:18:59.020
EZRA VANCIL: I do go into an office every once in a while, but most of the time I’m on a laptop.

00:18:59.020 –> 00:18:59.640
ROBONZO: If 5 a.m.

00:18:59.640 –> 00:19:10.020
ROBONZO: makes me think of, I don’t remember if it was the first or second conversation we had, you were talking about how somebody told you needed work on your guitar a little bit and so you started getting up at like 5 a.m.

00:19:10.020 –> 00:19:16.140
ROBONZO: if I remember correctly and just started doing some, I don’t know what scales or runs and like some practice routine stuff.

00:19:17.120 –> 00:19:24.580
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, that was me trying to change from just a strumming songwriter because all I did was just basically strum my guitar.

00:19:24.580 –> 00:19:31.080
EZRA VANCIL: I had one picking pattern to, I wanted to be more of a picker and so that’s what I did.

00:19:32.060 –> 00:19:42.480
EZRA VANCIL: I would wake up and it wasn’t long, it was maybe like 15 minutes before work, I would practice my different picking patterns and I would do that every morning before I got ready for work.

00:19:45.040 –> 00:19:46.460
ROBONZO: It’s like old times.

00:19:46.460 –> 00:19:48.160
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, yeah it is.

00:19:48.160 –> 00:20:06.620
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah it’s, morning is, this is something me and Cozi talk about a lot because she’s also a painter and we’ve discussed a lot the different kinds of energy there is in your writing and your art in the morning opposed to night.

00:20:06.620 –> 00:20:23.160
EZRA VANCIL: And there really is something different, like a freshness in the morning that I feel opposed to at night, you know, I can work just as much in either one but there’s kind of a different kind of art and music that comes out of the morning.

00:20:24.400 –> 00:20:54.220
ROBONZO: I can see that and this is probably anecdotal mostly but like I’ve heard people who just like they do their most creative or like if they’re writers they do their best writing at night like in the wee hours but you know some people are just sort of wired for mornings versus late hours so this is such an old person question but what what time do you go to okay so you get up at 6 a.m.

00:20:54.220 –> 00:21:46.460
ROBONZO: now and you work what time do you go to bed in the evenings I am asleep by 10 every night I go to bed at 9 but I usually like read a bit or watch him you know watch something with my wife but I’m asleep by 10 o’clock every night it’s about like me yeah you don’t know when I eat dinner I eat dinner at five pretty much every day you know we we probably would uh yeah and I was like trying to eat earlier just so you can sleep well but um yeah it’s kind of funny in the Mexican culture too because they culturally you know it’s like a the biggest meal of the days anywhere between one and three o’clock which is kind of their lunch and one’s early um and then they’ll have a smaller meal like 8 8 p.m.

00:21:46.460 –> 00:23:07.920
ROBONZO: or later yeah and I’m like I want to eat like a Mexican but but um now we usually eat early too it’s pretty funny I I laugh every time we talk about getting together with someone it’s like what time do you eat and I start laughing like an old people time yeah my my kids joke that I get the senior discount because I’m like ready to eat it five like a ride after work five o’clock so that’s funny that’s too funny tell me about the photo for the album artwork so the actual artwork on the cover is drawings that I did while I was making this this album and that is all over my website just I I went into something that I loved when I was young which is just pencil art and it was kind of like a relaxation thing I did after work and so I created all these they’re very large drawings of the forest creatures basically with my soul man which is like my logo and created a bunch of these and so a couple of them became the artwork but they’re all hand drawn pencil and ink kind of things.

00:23:07.920 –> 00:23:08.220
ROBONZO: Cool.

00:23:08.220 –> 00:23:12.140
ROBONZO: I’m going to go back and look at it and that artwork is on your website, right?

00:23:12.140 –> 00:23:12.860
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:23:12.860 –> 00:23:18.880
EZRA VANCIL: You can see that on the cover of the albums and it’s also just decorates my website.

00:23:18.880 –> 00:23:56.740
ROBONZO: I was noticing and remembering what an A-class job you do in terms of the marketing and branding and the presentation like I was, I think it hit me when I was looking at the merch page for the new albums, the double album and all the stuff you had offered and just I don’t know how clean everything looks and I started thinking back on, we’ve talked about it before, maybe we’ll make time to talk about it again today but I remember how much you put into this and because you have done as a day job as you say, you work in marketing and it all looks great.

00:23:56.740 –> 00:23:57.760
EZRA VANCIL: Well thank you.

00:23:57.760 –> 00:24:02.320
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, when I was younger, I was a graphic designer.

00:24:03.720 –> 00:24:08.100
EZRA VANCIL: So I just kind of carried that skill with me.

00:24:08.100 –> 00:24:12.240
EZRA VANCIL: And nowadays I don’t really do design very much.

00:24:12.240 –> 00:24:18.520
ROBONZO: What a nice skill to have had because it gives you a different eye and you can do it if you need to.

00:24:18.600 –> 00:24:19.340
EZRA VANCIL: Absolutely.

00:24:19.340 –> 00:24:23.340
EZRA VANCIL: I mean, I’m very grateful for my training in that.

00:24:23.340 –> 00:24:30.700
EZRA VANCIL: And I think that’s something, what’s funny is my early job was, I was a graphic designer for a college.

00:24:30.700 –> 00:24:34.940
EZRA VANCIL: And I utilized everything I learned.

00:24:35.160 –> 00:24:40.040
EZRA VANCIL: I would, well, so you could, you know, I might be able to present something we could do.

00:24:40.040 –> 00:24:43.980
EZRA VANCIL: Like I wanted to at some point start doing web design for them.

00:24:43.980 –> 00:24:50.360
EZRA VANCIL: This was like early when, you know, and so I wanted to learn that they would pay me to train.

00:24:50.360 –> 00:24:52.660
EZRA VANCIL: And then I would use that for my music.

00:24:52.660 –> 00:24:55.780
EZRA VANCIL: And then I talked them into buying a video camera.

00:24:55.780 –> 00:24:58.220
EZRA VANCIL: And I started making commercials for them.

00:24:58.220 –> 00:25:02.900
EZRA VANCIL: But I did that so I could learn video and editing to use in my music.

00:25:02.900 –> 00:25:12.520
EZRA VANCIL: And all these things, you know, they don’t know it that they were, they’re all driven by what I wanted to learn to use in my music career.

00:25:12.520 –> 00:25:13.700
EZRA VANCIL: And it helped them too.

00:25:13.980 –> 00:25:17.540
EZRA VANCIL: So, you know, we’re scratching each other’s backs.

00:25:17.760 –> 00:25:25.120
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, but the graphic design has really helped me over the years, just understanding the programs and how to do it.

00:25:25.120 –> 00:25:29.800
ROBONZO: Yeah, and probably just having us, well, a designer’s eye and sensibility.

00:25:30.980 –> 00:25:35.740
ROBONZO: These days in the company, you have your own still?

00:25:35.800 –> 00:25:38.060
ROBONZO: Or do you guys work for someone?

00:25:38.060 –> 00:25:41.560
EZRA VANCIL: I’m partnered with another company.

00:25:41.560 –> 00:25:42.200
ROBONZO: Okay.

00:25:42.200 –> 00:25:49.140
EZRA VANCIL: And so I do run a department now, but I’m not on my own anymore.

00:25:49.140 –> 00:25:51.380
ROBONZO: Okay, so you’re kind of managing some folks?

00:25:51.380 –> 00:25:58.700
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, I have an artist under me and SEO, and mostly management is what I do.

00:25:58.700 –> 00:26:03.100
ROBONZO: Do you guys have a broad spectrum of clients or do you specialize in something in particular?

00:26:03.100 –> 00:26:04.160
EZRA VANCIL: We specialize.

00:26:04.160 –> 00:26:05.580
EZRA VANCIL: I don’t like to share it too much.

00:26:05.700 –> 00:26:05.960
EZRA VANCIL: I don’t know.

00:26:05.960 –> 00:26:08.100
EZRA VANCIL: Is this live?

00:26:08.100 –> 00:26:08.700
ROBONZO: Yeah, we started.

00:26:08.700 –> 00:26:09.720
ROBONZO: We’re doing it, man.

00:26:09.720 –> 00:26:11.880
EZRA VANCIL: Okay.

00:26:11.880 –> 00:26:14.100
EZRA VANCIL: I didn’t know if we’re just having a conversation.

00:26:14.100 –> 00:26:24.960
EZRA VANCIL: I like to keep a little mystery, but a little personal data safe from the internet as far as where I work.

00:26:24.960 –> 00:26:30.240
EZRA VANCIL: Mainly because I don’t know if you’ve ever had this, but I’ve had some weird people show up at my door.

00:26:31.260 –> 00:26:39.120
EZRA VANCIL: And so I don’t do a good job of like separating my personal life from the internet world, but I kind of try to do it.

00:26:39.120 –> 00:26:42.080
EZRA VANCIL: So I don’t talk about where I work very often.

00:26:42.080 –> 00:26:45.080
ROBONZO: Is that because of the people showing up?

00:26:45.080 –> 00:26:49.460
ROBONZO: Was that because of music or because of work?

00:26:49.460 –> 00:26:51.740
EZRA VANCIL: It was music and them knowing where I worked.

00:26:52.560 –> 00:26:55.520
EZRA VANCIL: And so I’ve had it twice now.

00:26:55.520 –> 00:27:03.700
EZRA VANCIL: I’ve had people show up that were, I mean, I guess you’d call them stalkers of some sort.

00:27:03.700 –> 00:27:05.820
EZRA VANCIL: And it was a little freaky, to be honest.

00:27:05.820 –> 00:27:18.480
EZRA VANCIL: One of them showed up in front of my house and nothing bad happened, but it scared me and my family a little bit, just to know that somebody can know everywhere you are.

00:27:18.480 –> 00:27:19.560
ROBONZO: That’s so much easier today.

00:27:20.160 –> 00:27:20.860
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:27:20.860 –> 00:27:22.840
EZRA VANCIL: And back then, I wasn’t even thinking of it.

00:27:22.840 –> 00:27:34.360
EZRA VANCIL: I did, you know, I talked about work and everything, and it made me just kind of think twice about how much I share, you know, in that, out in the world.

00:27:34.360 –> 00:27:35.760
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:27:35.760 –> 00:27:37.900
ROBONZO: That’s why I live out of the country.

00:27:37.900 –> 00:27:39.640
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, exactly.

00:27:40.860 –> 00:27:54.680
ROBONZO: I do occasionally think like, well, I know it’s not that hard, but just the extra layer would, if anyone was ever going to do that to me, it just like, just gets a little bit more difficult, assuming that someone from the states.

00:27:54.680 –> 00:27:55.480
EZRA VANCIL: Absolutely.

00:27:55.500 –> 00:27:57.000
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:11.320
EZRA VANCIL: But I think that’s what it is, is that, you know, if you share everything, it’s, and especially if you, you know, I was living in Dallas, then it’s really not hard to, you know, drive down the road to somebody’s house, you know, or find out where that is.

00:28:11.320 –> 00:28:12.480
ROBONZO: Yeah, totally.

00:28:12.480 –> 00:28:25.340
ROBONZO: Well, the reason I was asking was, I mean, I know from past conversations, and even what we’re talking about now, like the things that lend themselves directly to helping you do, what you do with music.

00:28:25.340 –> 00:28:45.580
ROBONZO: And I guess I was trying to figure out, like, are there things that you’re doing now that still, do you still like, that you’ve, sorry, things that you do now that you feel still lend themselves to that aspect of like promoting the records or like doing visuals, or whatever it may be, this sort of marketing element.

00:28:45.580 –> 00:28:54.460
ROBONZO: Or are they things that you have amassed in the past and you just like reapplying those and like just thinking of new ideas?

00:28:54.460 –> 00:28:57.500
EZRA VANCIL: I mean, man, I have learned so much.

00:28:57.500 –> 00:29:01.060
EZRA VANCIL: So I’m part, I didn’t say that, I’m partnered in a business.

00:29:01.060 –> 00:29:03.380
EZRA VANCIL: So I help run a business.

00:29:05.000 –> 00:29:15.580
EZRA VANCIL: And I have learned so much in the last three years that helps my music career, that it’s just mind boggling how much I wish I knew all this growing up.

00:29:15.580 –> 00:29:19.960
EZRA VANCIL: And it mostly has to do with systems and processes.

00:29:19.960 –> 00:29:21.680
ROBONZO: And yeah, that’s a big one.

00:29:21.680 –> 00:29:22.500
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:29:22.500 –> 00:29:30.720
EZRA VANCIL: And just how underutilized that just that kind of mindset is where it’s made my life.

00:29:30.720 –> 00:29:35.560
EZRA VANCIL: For instance, to make this that year, I guess it was 2024.

00:29:35.560 –> 00:29:40.260
EZRA VANCIL: I made this double album, I wrote a book, I did all this artwork.

00:29:40.260 –> 00:29:45.160
EZRA VANCIL: At the same time, I was working, you know, 50, 60 hours a week at work.

00:29:45.160 –> 00:29:47.740
EZRA VANCIL: Both of my kids got married.

00:29:47.740 –> 00:29:52.320
EZRA VANCIL: And somehow I made this double album and wrote the book.

00:29:52.320 –> 00:29:58.100
EZRA VANCIL: And the only way I could have done that is that everything is systematized.

00:29:58.100 –> 00:30:13.860
EZRA VANCIL: There’s even in my day, like getting productivity skills and just thinking about my life more like a business of the flow of energy and of communication.

00:30:13.860 –> 00:30:19.040
EZRA VANCIL: I mean, it just goes on and on how much it’s helped me in my life just become…

00:30:19.040 –> 00:30:27.460
EZRA VANCIL: allow a space in my life for art to live where I’m just not freaking out and my head’s on fire every day, which it was.

00:30:27.460 –> 00:30:30.480
EZRA VANCIL: I was 45 probably.

00:30:30.540 –> 00:30:32.000
ROBONZO: Wow.

00:30:32.000 –> 00:30:50.500
ROBONZO: Well, I want to say from what I do know about you, that that is maybe somewhat personality trait driven, but you sounds like you’ve learned some things to help manage that as much as you have just learned about utilizing systems.

00:30:51.620 –> 00:30:54.640
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:30:54.640 –> 00:30:58.240
EZRA VANCIL: Our last conversation was I think about bipolar and stuff.

00:31:00.440 –> 00:31:24.840
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, I’ve changed a lot since my thoughts on all that since the coronavirus years, and mainly of just being more honest about it is that what I’ve found is that what they called bipolar is more for me, I see it now as a marketing label for them to sell their products to you.

00:31:24.840 –> 00:31:29.380
EZRA VANCIL: And in reality, for me, what I’ve found is that it is a personality.

00:31:29.380 –> 00:31:32.140
EZRA VANCIL: It’s somebody I’m very high energy.

00:31:32.140 –> 00:31:41.560
EZRA VANCIL: And I was very immature in my life and managing my own personality, my own energy, my own life, my own spirit, my own soul, you know?

00:31:42.640 –> 00:31:55.640
EZRA VANCIL: And so now there is this thing of just understanding myself a lot more, and that I have to manage my life and the way that I live, my health, or else it’s going to be chaos, you know?

00:31:55.640 –> 00:32:03.900
EZRA VANCIL: And so that it’s, I guess it’s just something, too, of just getting a little bit older and saying, I just don’t want to live like this anymore.

00:32:03.900 –> 00:32:11.060
EZRA VANCIL: And so I’ve got to get a handle on, you know, on how my life is run and have a hand in that.

00:32:11.140 –> 00:32:17.140
EZRA VANCIL: Instead of just letting it just go, which is probably what I did for most of my life.

00:32:17.140 –> 00:32:20.820
ROBONZO: Yeah, I wonder, I’m sort of thinking about our conversation.

00:32:20.820 –> 00:32:24.660
ROBONZO: Maybe it was our last one where we talked about sort of mental well-being and all.

00:32:24.660 –> 00:32:37.280
ROBONZO: And as it relates to this, and it strikes me that what you just told me was maybe just starting to come into focus for you, that you had been thinking about it.

00:32:37.280 –> 00:32:42.060
ROBONZO: You were starting to do little things, possibly at that time.

00:32:42.060 –> 00:32:42.540
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:32:42.540 –> 00:32:42.760
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:32:42.760 –> 00:32:51.700
EZRA VANCIL: And if I can be real honest, at that time, I was involved with trying to help other people that were dealing with this.

00:32:52.900 –> 00:32:57.380
EZRA VANCIL: And what I found was not that I didn’t like…

00:32:57.380 –> 00:33:07.520
EZRA VANCIL: I didn’t see that real true help was going to come from the path that I had gone on, which is the medical path, you know, pharmaceutical path.

00:33:08.420 –> 00:33:25.900
EZRA VANCIL: And not to say, you know, everybody needs to do whatever they think is best, but I found for myself that I just needed like a whole makeover of the way that I saw myself in the world and that I needed to take some responsibility for my life.

00:33:25.900 –> 00:33:30.120
EZRA VANCIL: And I think that was kind of all coming into focus around that time.

00:33:31.260 –> 00:33:36.140
EZRA VANCIL: And I had a big change just in how I manage my life.

00:33:36.140 –> 00:33:39.840
ROBONZO: Took, probably took a little while to sort of articulate it internally, it sounds like.

00:33:39.840 –> 00:33:43.720
ROBONZO: And now you actually articulate it quite well out internally.

00:33:43.760 –> 00:33:44.520
EZRA VANCIL: Absolutely.

00:33:44.520 –> 00:33:46.480
EZRA VANCIL: And you know, and it’s such a sensitive thing.

00:33:46.480 –> 00:33:52.780
EZRA VANCIL: And I really do empathize and feel a lot of heartfelt sympathy for people that deal with this.

00:33:52.780 –> 00:33:56.020
EZRA VANCIL: Like, I mean, in the depths of my soul, I feel it.

00:33:56.020 –> 00:34:05.400
EZRA VANCIL: But at the same time, I kind of had to come to terms with finding my own way to speak about it.

00:34:05.400 –> 00:34:13.620
EZRA VANCIL: And yeah, I think it has taken some years just to kind of understand what, you know, my own thoughts about it.

00:34:15.060 –> 00:34:17.060
ROBONZO: Is there any…

00:34:17.060 –> 00:34:24.980
ROBONZO: I touch on mental health, mental well-being with various people in writing for the whole Unstarving Musician thing.

00:34:24.980 –> 00:34:30.940
ROBONZO: And I’ve had some challenges of my own in the past, but it’s minor, pretty minor, I think.

00:34:30.940 –> 00:34:42.120
ROBONZO: But if you had strategies you’d share with anyone who’s struggling with something similar, is there any?

00:34:42.120 –> 00:34:48.420
EZRA VANCIL: Do you know, probably the biggest and most obvious, which some people might go, yeah, of course.

00:34:48.420 –> 00:35:01.500
EZRA VANCIL: But the mixing of alcohol and drugs within these kind of mental health problems is like just drinking poison, I believe.

00:35:01.500 –> 00:35:04.660
EZRA VANCIL: It can cause just such a…

00:35:04.660 –> 00:35:24.340
EZRA VANCIL: for me personally, it was in a lot of ways the solution to all those things, but at the same way, over time, it never allowed me to have my feet underneath me for long enough to really start doing something about all this.

00:35:24.340 –> 00:35:33.180
EZRA VANCIL: So it’s a little bit like having a place that I could retreat to at all times, instead of facing what I needed to face.

00:35:34.820 –> 00:35:36.420
EZRA VANCIL: I’ve talked about that a lot.

00:35:36.420 –> 00:35:39.900
EZRA VANCIL: I had a major alcohol and drug problem.

00:35:39.900 –> 00:35:42.280
EZRA VANCIL: Not so much drugs, but mainly alcohol.

00:35:42.280 –> 00:35:49.840
EZRA VANCIL: But when I could retreat to that solution, I never had, we talked about tension.

00:35:49.840 –> 00:35:57.700
EZRA VANCIL: I never had the tension that actually changes you, like I’ve got to do something about this, and I’ve got nothing to lean on.

00:35:57.700 –> 00:36:15.060
EZRA VANCIL: That to me was a start, and it’s probably the biggest thing, is I find, you know, meet somebody that’s going through this, and I find that they’re, you know, smoking quite a bit of pot, or, you know, relaxing with, or fixing their problems with some alcohol, whether it’s a lot or a little.

00:36:15.060 –> 00:36:22.660
EZRA VANCIL: It’s almost like, at least for this time in your life, you’ve got to, you got to face this stark sober, you know?

00:36:22.660 –> 00:36:27.020
EZRA VANCIL: Otherwise, I don’t know how much change is going to happen.

00:36:27.020 –> 00:36:31.520
EZRA VANCIL: So that’s probably my biggest thing that I run into when talking to people.

00:36:32.780 –> 00:36:41.560
EZRA VANCIL: You know, it’s kind of hard to like, to like hit a tactic or something, because it’s, there’s so many different things we could, you know, I don’t even know who I’m talking to.

00:36:41.560 –> 00:36:44.120
EZRA VANCIL: You know, there’s so many different things that people deal with.

00:36:44.120 –> 00:36:45.480
EZRA VANCIL: So it’s hard to say.

00:36:45.480 –> 00:36:51.240
ROBONZO: Yeah, maybe, maybe it’s worth saying, like, every, everybody’s situation is extremely unique in.

00:36:51.520 –> 00:36:53.880
EZRA VANCIL: It’s very true.

00:36:53.880 –> 00:37:05.680
EZRA VANCIL: I had, I had another thing that was just really good, and it still is in my life, is that I have people in my life who have struggled with the same things.

00:37:06.040 –> 00:37:23.800
EZRA VANCIL: In fact, I would say I’ve made it kind of a practice if I’m struggling with something, to find somebody, you know, that has struggled with it or that is, especially somebody that struggled with it, but they’re in a place that I would like to be, and them mentoring me.

00:37:23.800 –> 00:37:26.900
EZRA VANCIL: And I’ve had quite a few mentors right now.

00:37:26.900 –> 00:37:31.280
EZRA VANCIL: I have a group of men that just meet once a week.

00:37:31.640 –> 00:37:54.740
EZRA VANCIL: You know, we all deal with the same things, and that to me is just having this real life kind of feedback, you know, and allowing that person to have feedback, like I allow them a little levity in the truth they can tell me, because they’re there for a reason to help me see myself and see the things that I’m constantly bumping up against.

00:37:55.460 –> 00:38:08.120
EZRA VANCIL: And so, mentorship, however you call that, you know, friendship can be that way, but sometimes if it’s an official kind of, I need somebody, you know, to really be honest with me.

00:38:08.120 –> 00:38:18.120
EZRA VANCIL: And I might not like it, I might not agree, but at least, you know, we’re trying to do this relationship of somebody looking at my problems besides me, you know, and just telling me what they see.

00:38:19.940 –> 00:38:21.320
ROBONZO: Yeah, I could see that would be great.

00:38:21.320 –> 00:38:27.160
ROBONZO: And that’s sort of, I suppose, wonderful sort of general tip to share with people.

00:38:27.160 –> 00:38:39.520
ROBONZO: And I know that Backline, and I forget their domain, but I bet you backline.org is one of them has like mental health resources for creative people and musicians very specifically.

00:38:39.520 –> 00:38:46.760
ROBONZO: But do you, are there places that people can go looking for groups like the one you mentioned if they were interested?

00:38:47.840 –> 00:38:55.520
EZRA VANCIL: Well, once again, it probably depends a lot with what they’re dealing with, because I think it should be really specific to what we’re dealing with.

00:38:55.520 –> 00:39:02.620
EZRA VANCIL: Like, of course, like if drugs or alcohol are involved, there’s 12-step programs.

00:39:02.620 –> 00:39:05.280
EZRA VANCIL: There’s like a ton of those, you know.

00:39:05.280 –> 00:39:16.000
EZRA VANCIL: I think those are really great because it’s not this, I’m kind of a rebel, so I have a problem with the idea of the teacher and the people.

00:39:17.040 –> 00:39:33.080
EZRA VANCIL: But finding ones, I think, with kind of a lateral group, you know, it’s not anybody telling you what to do, but you’re just there sharing your experience, they’re sharing theirs and you’re learning from each other’s stories.

00:39:33.080 –> 00:39:35.740
EZRA VANCIL: So that’s a big one, is that 12-step?

00:39:36.940 –> 00:39:41.840
EZRA VANCIL: There’s one, my friend, oh my goodness, it’s skipping my mind, though.

00:39:42.200 –> 00:39:45.280
EZRA VANCIL: It’s called Celebrate Recovery.

00:39:45.280 –> 00:39:50.380
EZRA VANCIL: And I have, I don’t know much about it, but I do know a few people.

00:39:50.380 –> 00:39:58.460
EZRA VANCIL: And it’s for all kinds of issues, too, that have gone through that program and are doing really well.

00:39:58.460 –> 00:40:00.480
EZRA VANCIL: And so that’s another one that I’ve just heard of.

00:40:00.480 –> 00:40:03.520
EZRA VANCIL: I don’t really know it much about it, to be honest.

00:40:03.520 –> 00:40:05.560
EZRA VANCIL: I’ve just seen it work in people’s lives.

00:40:05.560 –> 00:40:07.320
EZRA VANCIL: But that’s like a group type thing, too.

00:40:08.960 –> 00:40:20.920
ROBONZO: Well, I guess a good thing to consider is to just seek a group and think about what your specific situation is and see if that can take you somewhere.

00:40:20.920 –> 00:40:25.280
ROBONZO: And like I said, I know I’ve had a couple of different musicians and have read a lot about Backalign.

00:40:25.280 –> 00:40:33.780
ROBONZO: They seem to be a pretty good resource for just sort of helping you get your bearings, figure out what you could or should be doing to try and get some help.

00:40:33.780 –> 00:40:35.320
ROBONZO: So thanks for sharing that.

00:40:35.320 –> 00:40:36.200
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, you bet.

00:40:39.280 –> 00:40:46.680
ROBONZO: One of the last times we talked, you were working on building a studio, I think the last time we talked.

00:40:46.680 –> 00:40:47.180
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:40:47.540 –> 00:40:48.940
ROBONZO: Did you do it?

00:40:49.980 –> 00:40:52.620
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, everything’s a story.

00:40:53.100 –> 00:41:06.780
EZRA VANCIL: I started, we got some land that had some old, really old cabins like falling apart kind of, and we started fixing them, and we still are fixing them.

00:41:06.780 –> 00:41:10.980
EZRA VANCIL: And one of them became my studio.

00:41:10.980 –> 00:41:13.640
EZRA VANCIL: And I did, I turned it into a studio.

00:41:13.640 –> 00:41:19.080
EZRA VANCIL: I made my last album in this, most of this album in there.

00:41:19.080 –> 00:41:22.540
EZRA VANCIL: But what happened is me and my wife needed a place to live.

00:41:22.540 –> 00:41:26.080
EZRA VANCIL: And so it’s now turned into my house.

00:41:26.340 –> 00:41:29.300
EZRA VANCIL: It’s now a house with my gear all over the place.

00:41:29.300 –> 00:41:30.220
EZRA VANCIL: My wife can’t stand it.

00:41:30.380 –> 00:41:34.120
EZRA VANCIL: But so I don’t really have a functional studio anymore.

00:41:34.120 –> 00:41:38.240
EZRA VANCIL: I did for about a year and it was really, really nice.

00:41:38.240 –> 00:41:41.420
EZRA VANCIL: And I’m kind of hoping to get back to that someday.

00:41:41.420 –> 00:41:43.140
ROBONZO: Got to rehab another cabin?

00:41:43.140 –> 00:41:46.580
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, I have a lot of work to do.

00:41:46.580 –> 00:41:50.120
ROBONZO: So are you like, did you have to get much help with that?

00:41:50.120 –> 00:41:57.820
ROBONZO: Or do you have sort of those type of inherent skills for rehabilitating buildings?

00:41:57.820 –> 00:41:59.280
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, not by choice.

00:41:59.280 –> 00:42:06.500
EZRA VANCIL: But my dad was a, well, he was in construction and carpentry and painting.

00:42:06.500 –> 00:42:08.940
EZRA VANCIL: He was a painter growing up.

00:42:09.960 –> 00:42:14.000
EZRA VANCIL: And I worked with him until I was in my twenties.

00:42:14.000 –> 00:42:21.660
EZRA VANCIL: And then I got a job at a college again, as a maintenance guy where we did carpentry and stuff.

00:42:21.660 –> 00:42:23.340
EZRA VANCIL: So I picked up a lot of skills.

00:42:23.440 –> 00:42:29.840
EZRA VANCIL: I could probably, I have built a little, I’ve built additions to this house here in Oak Cliff.

00:42:29.840 –> 00:42:32.860
EZRA VANCIL: And I’ve got the skills to do it.

00:42:32.860 –> 00:42:39.480
EZRA VANCIL: Now, whether I’m that good, I don’t think I’m that great, but I can get it done.

00:42:39.480 –> 00:42:39.900
ROBONZO: It’s cool.

00:42:39.900 –> 00:42:43.240
ROBONZO: It’s a nice skill to have.

00:42:43.240 –> 00:42:45.380
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, it’s very handy.

00:42:45.420 –> 00:42:59.440
EZRA VANCIL: You know, just, I’m always, it’s strange, like at this time in my life, because I’ve had, you know, as a musician, a lot of people, you know, that are musicians go through a lot of jobs.

00:42:59.440 –> 00:43:01.260
EZRA VANCIL: And I’ve had my fair share.

00:43:01.260 –> 00:43:03.560
EZRA VANCIL: I mean, I don’t even know how many jobs I’ve had.

00:43:04.140 –> 00:43:10.240
EZRA VANCIL: And they’re in different, you know, marketing and construction and video.

00:43:11.040 –> 00:43:20.360
EZRA VANCIL: And they’ve all kind of came together in my 40s to, and are very useful to me.

00:43:20.360 –> 00:43:21.660
EZRA VANCIL: I hated all those jobs.

00:43:21.660 –> 00:43:24.900
EZRA VANCIL: But now I’m like, man, I’m so glad I learned all of this.

00:43:24.900 –> 00:43:25.600
EZRA VANCIL: I did roofing.

00:43:25.600 –> 00:43:28.000
EZRA VANCIL: I did work for electrician.

00:43:28.000 –> 00:43:29.060
EZRA VANCIL: I did all this stuff.

00:43:29.060 –> 00:43:34.560
EZRA VANCIL: And now I have just enough to, if I want to do a little project, I can do it.

00:43:34.560 –> 00:43:35.580
ROBONZO: That’s cool.

00:43:35.940 –> 00:43:42.160
ROBONZO: And even better, if you, if and when you need help, you know what, how it’s supposed to be done.

00:43:42.160 –> 00:43:48.840
ROBONZO: So going back to your album, you’re going to release, you’re doing a singles, monthly singles release strategy.

00:43:48.840 –> 00:43:52.180
ROBONZO: Are you just one single into it so far?

00:43:52.180 –> 00:43:52.760
EZRA VANCIL: Yes.

00:43:52.760 –> 00:43:56.040
EZRA VANCIL: That was the, Baby Love was the first single.

00:43:56.040 –> 00:43:58.260
EZRA VANCIL: Went out on October 1st.

00:43:58.260 –> 00:44:01.300
EZRA VANCIL: And there’s another one on November 7th.

00:44:01.300 –> 00:44:01.620
EZRA VANCIL: I say-

00:44:01.660 –> 00:44:07.440
ROBONZO: Do you allow, wait, on November 7th, are you allowed to tell me on the podcast which one, what that song is going to be?

00:44:07.440 –> 00:44:07.960
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:44:08.240 –> 00:44:09.440
EZRA VANCIL: It’s called Island.

00:44:09.440 –> 00:44:10.640
EZRA VANCIL: And it’s off the morning side.

00:44:10.900 –> 00:44:16.120
EZRA VANCIL: I’m going to try to flip it like one from the midnight, one from the morning, each place.

00:44:16.120 –> 00:44:17.040
EZRA VANCIL: That’s cool.

00:44:17.040 –> 00:44:18.200
EZRA VANCIL: That one’s called Island.

00:44:18.200 –> 00:44:20.600
EZRA VANCIL: And it’s got a music video with it also.

00:44:20.600 –> 00:44:22.340
ROBONZO: And that’s not out yet, right?

00:44:22.540 –> 00:44:23.680
ROBONZO: The video?

00:44:23.680 –> 00:44:24.160
EZRA VANCIL: No.

00:44:24.160 –> 00:44:27.920
EZRA VANCIL: That’ll all launch on November 7th.

00:44:27.920 –> 00:44:30.940
EZRA VANCIL: Last year, I tried to experiment.

00:44:31.400 –> 00:44:33.380
EZRA VANCIL: Or I say last year, this was 24.

00:44:33.380 –> 00:44:40.800
EZRA VANCIL: While I was doing this album, I, instead of releasing, I had an album called We Were Wild.

00:44:40.800 –> 00:44:42.720
EZRA VANCIL: And it was all complete.

00:44:42.720 –> 00:44:48.920
EZRA VANCIL: And I was just so tired of dropping stuff and the big disappointment, you know.

00:44:48.920 –> 00:44:52.060
ROBONZO: Now, did you drop that one all at once or buy singles?

00:44:52.060 –> 00:44:52.520
EZRA VANCIL: No.

00:44:52.520 –> 00:44:58.340
EZRA VANCIL: So I didn’t drop that one at all until I had a year of selling it.

00:44:58.340 –> 00:44:58.560
ROBONZO: Okay.

00:44:59.380 –> 00:45:05.000
EZRA VANCIL: And it actually to better than I’ve done in many years, it actually worked.

00:45:05.000 –> 00:45:09.020
EZRA VANCIL: So I sold quite a few copies before I released it.

00:45:09.020 –> 00:45:11.600
EZRA VANCIL: And I did it through just limited release.

00:45:12.740 –> 00:45:15.800
EZRA VANCIL: And you get the download and stream it in the app.

00:45:15.800 –> 00:45:20.920
EZRA VANCIL: But I did not put it on streaming until about a year of selling the album.

00:45:20.920 –> 00:45:24.820
EZRA VANCIL: And so I’m kind of doing a mixture on this album.

00:45:25.360 –> 00:45:33.320
EZRA VANCIL: Since it’s so big, I can kind of release some streaming and still have it in limited release for a long time.

00:45:34.060 –> 00:45:36.060
ROBONZO: I was laughing.

00:45:36.060 –> 00:45:40.000
ROBONZO: Even Led Zeppelin is doing this streaming strategy nowadays.

00:45:41.140 –> 00:45:51.920
ROBONZO: They released some new versions of, I guess, previously unofficial release, live recordings, just four songs, so an EP.

00:45:51.920 –> 00:45:52.880
ROBONZO: But they dripped them out.

00:45:52.880 –> 00:45:55.200
ROBONZO: I was like, oh, look at that.

00:45:57.280 –> 00:45:59.740
EZRA VANCIL: I really think it’s the way to go.

00:46:01.200 –> 00:46:07.380
EZRA VANCIL: For the most part, especially, I mean, I guess it depends on how much, if you have a label behind you and money.

00:46:07.380 –> 00:46:14.120
EZRA VANCIL: But if you’re just one dude like me, how do you promote and make videos and artwork?

00:46:14.180 –> 00:46:30.020
EZRA VANCIL: Well, especially for a double album, for 20 songs, what’s going to happen is you’re going to run out of steam about three songs in, and then the rest of them are just going to languish in the great void of Spotify.

00:46:30.140 –> 00:46:36.520
ROBONZO: Ian, I think we talked about this before, that a video to support a song is huge when it’s done right.

00:46:36.560 –> 00:46:37.620
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:46:37.620 –> 00:46:42.220
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, I hear all this, everybody’s different opinions on it.

00:46:42.220 –> 00:46:53.180
EZRA VANCIL: But for me, it’s kind of the linchpin in your release strategy, because it’s not that it’s going to do great.

00:46:53.180 –> 00:46:59.360
EZRA VANCIL: I don’t believe my music videos are going to do great, but they kind of give people something to hold on to during the release.

00:46:59.360 –> 00:47:06.880
EZRA VANCIL: Kind of tells a story too of what your visuals are about, what you’re about when they’re looking at it.

00:47:06.880 –> 00:47:09.180
EZRA VANCIL: And I think it’s just real important.

00:47:09.180 –> 00:47:10.980
EZRA VANCIL: You also get a lot of imagery from it.

00:47:10.980 –> 00:47:15.200
EZRA VANCIL: You get some back behind the scenes footage you can use.

00:47:15.200 –> 00:47:17.820
EZRA VANCIL: And it just gives you all this material.

00:47:17.820 –> 00:47:19.540
EZRA VANCIL: Otherwise, you wouldn’t have.

00:47:19.540 –> 00:47:21.360
EZRA VANCIL: You just have to make it.

00:47:21.360 –> 00:47:22.120
ROBONZO: That’s true.

00:47:22.120 –> 00:47:22.840
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah.

00:47:22.840 –> 00:47:28.400
ROBONZO: All that extras, the extras, the cutting room floor things that can become behind the scenes things.

00:47:28.400 –> 00:47:29.140
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:47:29.140 –> 00:47:31.800
EZRA VANCIL: And you can also drip your videos.

00:47:31.800 –> 00:47:35.980
EZRA VANCIL: I did that last year where I had videos for this album.

00:47:35.980 –> 00:47:37.860
EZRA VANCIL: It’s the We Were Wild one.

00:47:37.860 –> 00:47:39.620
EZRA VANCIL: But I didn’t release those either.

00:47:39.620 –> 00:47:44.960
EZRA VANCIL: And they’re like little hooks to bring people in.

00:47:44.960 –> 00:47:51.940
EZRA VANCIL: Even after it started releasing, I could still bring them in to watch a private preview of the music video.

00:47:51.960 –> 00:47:53.060
ROBONZO: Oh, that’s cool.

00:47:53.060 –> 00:47:58.000
EZRA VANCIL: If I can hold stuff back, it gives me some leverage for somebody to actually want to sign up.

00:47:58.000 –> 00:48:05.100
EZRA VANCIL: Because otherwise, there’s just not a lot of cool to do that when you can just go listen to the whole thing, you know.

00:48:05.100 –> 00:48:06.260
ROBONZO: And forget about it.

00:48:06.280 –> 00:48:07.460
EZRA VANCIL: And forget about it.

00:48:07.460 –> 00:48:08.380
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:48:08.380 –> 00:48:12.140
ROBONZO: You did one of these, you did this very thing with Baby Love, didn’t you?

00:48:12.140 –> 00:48:20.580
ROBONZO: Where you had like a release view, not party might not be the right word, but you had like a live release, right, for the video?

00:48:20.580 –> 00:48:21.160
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:48:21.160 –> 00:48:21.720
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah.

00:48:21.800 –> 00:48:23.220
EZRA VANCIL: Yes, I did.

00:48:23.220 –> 00:48:25.960
EZRA VANCIL: I did it actually more than that.

00:48:25.960 –> 00:48:37.200
EZRA VANCIL: I did an entire 10 days straight of live video and a backstage area that you could get access to and see all of the videos I have now.

00:48:37.200 –> 00:48:46.640
EZRA VANCIL: So it had in total, probably like, well, 10 videos that aren’t going out into the public for a long time.

00:48:46.900 –> 00:48:51.180
EZRA VANCIL: Plus, I did a live hangout every night.

00:48:51.180 –> 00:48:57.160
ROBONZO: And those were those for people on your email list or for a smaller group of people?

00:48:57.160 –> 00:48:59.220
EZRA VANCIL: Yes, it was an email list.

00:48:59.220 –> 00:49:06.060
EZRA VANCIL: I did do some posts to let people know, my subscriber, that this was going to be exclusive to my subscribers.

00:49:06.060 –> 00:49:07.220
EZRA VANCIL: That’s so cool.

00:49:07.220 –> 00:49:08.420
EZRA VANCIL: It was just for my email list.

00:49:08.500 –> 00:49:16.780
EZRA VANCIL: And it was for one thing to get everybody excited, but also just to kind of build a little more relationship with my email list.

00:49:16.780 –> 00:49:18.280
EZRA VANCIL: And it was really mean.

00:49:18.280 –> 00:49:22.140
EZRA VANCIL: It turned out to be a really…

00:49:23.380 –> 00:49:26.820
EZRA VANCIL: I would say I enjoyed it, maybe more than everybody else.

00:49:26.820 –> 00:49:28.600
EZRA VANCIL: I just enjoyed having people there.

00:49:28.600 –> 00:49:35.800
EZRA VANCIL: There was a chat and we chatted and talking about stuff other than music, you know, just people talk.

00:49:35.800 –> 00:49:36.300
ROBONZO: That’s cool.

00:49:37.280 –> 00:49:42.020
ROBONZO: There’s a guy I had on the podcast maybe three times, Eli Lev.

00:49:42.020 –> 00:49:49.160
ROBONZO: He’s a folk singer, songwriter, and he did a recent live release.

00:49:49.160 –> 00:49:50.680
ROBONZO: Now I’m just checking out a little bit of it today.

00:49:50.680 –> 00:49:58.040
ROBONZO: So he had, maybe you did something similar, but he had a very small live audience.

00:49:58.040 –> 00:50:00.700
ROBONZO: But the camera was, you know, just on him.

00:50:00.700 –> 00:50:02.080
ROBONZO: But there were definitely people there.

00:50:02.080 –> 00:50:05.180
ROBONZO: And it was also a live video.

00:50:05.440 –> 00:50:12.100
ROBONZO: So I think they had, I think they had like chat stuff going.

00:50:12.100 –> 00:50:14.400
ROBONZO: I think, but anyway, it looked cool.

00:50:14.400 –> 00:50:19.340
ROBONZO: And I somehow missed, missed yours, but I’ll watch and see if you do, do it some more.

00:50:19.340 –> 00:50:42.700
ROBONZO: Just, it’s really fun for, I don’t know how many musicians, you probably do have a lot of musicians that follow you, but it’s really fun to see that stuff too, just to see like how you’re doing as much as you can, you know, you can tell from just watching it, the end product, but, and the way you’re doing releases and to see the quality of certain aspects of it, it’s pretty fun.

00:50:42.700 –> 00:50:53.060
EZRA VANCIL: It is, and I think it’s the way forward is whether we like it or not, is that music is, it doesn’t have the value that it used to have.

00:50:53.060 –> 00:51:00.780
EZRA VANCIL: And so it’s really kind of bringing people into your world and into a certain type of relationship at least.

00:51:02.480 –> 00:51:16.200
EZRA VANCIL: And I don’t think there’s any better way to do it than live, unscripted, you know, either music, I think a concert’s great live too, but even just hopping on and doing a hangouts and stuff, I’m sold.

00:51:16.220 –> 00:51:16.800
ROBONZO: That’s cool.

00:51:16.800 –> 00:51:20.620
ROBONZO: I’m glad to hear that because I’ve, you know, I’ve been thinking about doing it for so long.

00:51:20.620 –> 00:51:24.100
ROBONZO: And I just, yeah, I really have all the tools I need.

00:51:24.100 –> 00:51:34.100
ROBONZO: I mean, I don’t have like a great camera or anything, but I have everything I need to do it and platformize and all that and plenty of plenty of content.

00:51:34.100 –> 00:51:35.500
ROBONZO: This isn’t even for music either.

00:51:35.500 –> 00:51:40.420
ROBONZO: It’s just for like things around the podcast and the newsletter.

00:51:40.420 –> 00:51:46.820
ROBONZO: So, yeah, I’m glad to hear that that it’s working well or that it seems so promising.

00:51:46.820 –> 00:51:52.500
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, yeah, I learned a lot from it and I definitely will be doing it in the future.

00:51:54.320 –> 00:51:59.840
EZRA VANCIL: I think it created some real, like people that liked my music.

00:51:59.840 –> 00:52:02.000
EZRA VANCIL: It created what they used to call super fans.

00:52:02.000 –> 00:52:03.580
EZRA VANCIL: I don’t know if that’s still a term.

00:52:03.580 –> 00:52:04.300
ROBONZO: Sure.

00:52:04.300 –> 00:52:19.480
EZRA VANCIL: But people that now, before maybe I would see a comment from them, but now I get an email, you know, from different fans that are listening to a song with a picture of something that was talked about at the hangout or something.

00:52:20.180 –> 00:52:28.920
EZRA VANCIL: And so it’s created this kind of deeper relationship with people that I don’t think anything before that had done that except these live hangouts.

00:52:28.920 –> 00:52:29.460
ROBONZO: That’s cool.

00:52:29.460 –> 00:52:30.700
ROBONZO: Are you doing you?

00:52:30.700 –> 00:52:33.260
ROBONZO: So the video was on YouTube live, right?

00:52:33.260 –> 00:52:33.580
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:52:33.580 –> 00:52:36.680
EZRA VANCIL: And in fact, I don’t, I need to go look.

00:52:36.680 –> 00:52:39.820
EZRA VANCIL: I think some of them just reposted live up there.

00:52:39.820 –> 00:52:44.380
EZRA VANCIL: So you might be able to go to my YouTube and still see some of the hangouts.

00:52:44.380 –> 00:52:50.200
ROBONZO: Well, I was going to ask, were they all done on YouTube or did you do it on some other, did you use some other platform for parts of it?

00:52:50.200 –> 00:52:51.900
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, I used StreamYard.

00:52:51.900 –> 00:52:53.180
ROBONZO: Okay.

00:52:53.180 –> 00:52:56.620
EZRA VANCIL: And it’s pretty cool for its simplicity.

00:52:56.620 –> 00:53:00.400
EZRA VANCIL: I probably wouldn’t use it again because it’s maybe too simple.

00:53:01.760 –> 00:53:07.520
EZRA VANCIL: But for what I was doing, it’s really easy to set it up and schedule it.

00:53:07.520 –> 00:53:10.960
ROBONZO: And what is it that StreamYard did for you?

00:53:10.960 –> 00:53:14.980
EZRA VANCIL: So this is how I understand it because I was brand new to this too.

00:53:15.140 –> 00:53:17.980
EZRA VANCIL: So I have a streaming.

00:53:17.980 –> 00:53:20.140
EZRA VANCIL: What is the big one that everybody uses?

00:53:20.140 –> 00:53:21.420
EZRA VANCIL: That’s an app.

00:53:21.420 –> 00:53:23.900
ROBONZO: Is it for multi-channel streaming?

00:53:23.900 –> 00:53:25.720
ROBONZO: Yes.

00:53:25.720 –> 00:53:26.240
ROBONZO: I forget.

00:53:26.240 –> 00:53:28.560
ROBONZO: It’s like an open source app, right?

00:53:28.560 –> 00:53:28.800
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:53:28.800 –> 00:53:29.600
ROBONZO: I’m sorry.

00:53:29.600 –> 00:53:30.440
ROBONZO: I forget the name too.

00:53:30.440 –> 00:53:32.840
ROBONZO: I had it and I think I took it off because I wasn’t using it.

00:53:32.840 –> 00:53:35.120
ROBONZO: But I think people still use it.

00:53:35.120 –> 00:53:35.540
EZRA VANCIL: Yes.

00:53:35.540 –> 00:53:36.080
EZRA VANCIL: Huge.

00:53:36.080 –> 00:53:39.040
EZRA VANCIL: And I have it here, but I can’t remember the name of it.

00:53:39.080 –> 00:53:56.520
EZRA VANCIL: But so I started using that, but because I’m out in the forest and my internet is just quite horrid, I just researched and found that I should do browser streaming because that streams from my hard drive.

00:53:58.200 –> 00:54:01.640
ROBONZO: And meaning that it buffers on your hard drive too?

00:54:01.640 –> 00:54:02.060
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:54:02.060 –> 00:54:15.860
EZRA VANCIL: So the stream, whatever it’s, I don’t know the technical terms, but whatever the streaming mechanism was, it was going to be pulling it from my laptop where StreamYard is streaming from the browser.

00:54:15.860 –> 00:54:20.460
EZRA VANCIL: From, it’s kind of doing the hard work of the streaming.

00:54:20.460 –> 00:54:22.220
EZRA VANCIL: That’s how I understood it.

00:54:22.220 –> 00:54:24.480
EZRA VANCIL: And there was an incredible lag.

00:54:24.480 –> 00:54:32.060
EZRA VANCIL: Like I actually could not like chat with people because my lag was probably like five minutes because of my internet was not great.

00:54:32.060 –> 00:54:32.820
ROBONZO: Wow.

00:54:32.820 –> 00:54:34.440
EZRA VANCIL: But that’s why I went with that.

00:54:34.440 –> 00:54:35.440
EZRA VANCIL: I don’t know if that’s true.

00:54:35.440 –> 00:54:38.100
EZRA VANCIL: That’s just the research I did before I jumped on.

00:54:38.260 –> 00:54:41.840
ROBONZO: But so StreamYard helped with that problem and just made it work.

00:54:41.840 –> 00:54:42.840
ROBONZO: That’s cool.

00:54:42.840 –> 00:54:49.940
EZRA VANCIL: It amazingly worked because I was amazed that with my internet is not good out there that I could actually do it.

00:54:49.940 –> 00:54:53.120
ROBONZO: Because I mean, I guess one could just go.

00:54:53.120 –> 00:54:56.780
ROBONZO: How about I guess, you know, you’re trying to do a high quality audio thing.

00:54:56.780 –> 00:55:01.960
ROBONZO: But I was going to say like one could just go YouTube Live or go on Twitch or whatever.

00:55:01.960 –> 00:55:06.500
ROBONZO: But yeah, I guess they’re all the right because you’re playing music on some of these.

00:55:07.120 –> 00:55:08.040
ROBONZO: Yeah, almost all.

00:55:08.040 –> 00:55:10.220
ROBONZO: Okay, yeah, that’s what I was going to say.

00:55:10.220 –> 00:55:19.820
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, there was another problem is I wanted to stream to several places, to Facebook, to YouTube and to I had a back end platform that I was streaming to.

00:55:19.820 –> 00:55:20.580
ROBONZO: Okay.

00:55:20.580 –> 00:55:23.720
EZRA VANCIL: And StreamYard does that too really well.

00:55:23.740 –> 00:55:26.960
EZRA VANCIL: So I could like send it multiple places.

00:55:27.400 –> 00:55:33.460
EZRA VANCIL: Now the audio, this is, I learned this after the stream because audio is quite terrible.

00:55:34.760 –> 00:55:41.320
EZRA VANCIL: And what I found out is you either have to have a super high bandwidth for good audio.

00:55:41.320 –> 00:55:50.780
EZRA VANCIL: But what most people do is they’re recording the stream and then they’re recording the audio separately.

00:55:50.780 –> 00:56:02.220
EZRA VANCIL: And what happens as soon as you finish the stream, you can sync up that audio, and then they have a pristine audio copy with anybody that reviews the stream.

00:56:02.220 –> 00:56:07.820
EZRA VANCIL: And I think most people do that that don’t have super high bandwidth.

00:56:07.820 –> 00:56:09.100
ROBONZO: Good to know.

00:56:10.180 –> 00:56:10.760
ROBONZO: Good to know.

00:56:10.760 –> 00:56:11.500
ROBONZO: Well, that’s cool, though.

00:56:11.500 –> 00:56:12.240
ROBONZO: I’m glad that…

00:56:12.240 –> 00:56:15.680
ROBONZO: And I guess I’ve always thought, I’m just going to pick a channel and go with that channel.

00:56:15.680 –> 00:56:18.520
ROBONZO: I don’t like the hassle of having to go to multiple places.

00:56:18.760 –> 00:56:23.380
ROBONZO: And they’re not all created equal either in terms of how good that they render this stuff, I would imagine.

00:56:23.480 –> 00:56:27.400
ROBONZO: But that’s awesome, that you found it.

00:56:27.400 –> 00:56:31.860
ROBONZO: So, and it’s kind of, this is somewhat new for you, right?

00:56:31.860 –> 00:56:36.200
ROBONZO: It’s not something you’ve been doing in the past two or three albums, is it?

00:56:36.200 –> 00:56:50.100
EZRA VANCIL: No, no, I haven’t done any streaming except maybe way back, you know, eight years, six, seven, when streaming first became a thing, I like tried some of it, but that was it.

00:56:50.100 –> 00:56:51.680
EZRA VANCIL: And so I haven’t done anything like it.

00:56:53.340 –> 00:56:54.000
ROBONZO: Well, that’s cool.

00:56:54.520 –> 00:57:01.960
ROBONZO: I’m going to check some of the, see if I can find some of the old stuff, but I can definitely just keep my eyes open for the new stuff since I’m on your, on your email list.

00:57:01.960 –> 00:57:07.720
ROBONZO: And so you and Cozi are already working on, does she spell her name with an I or a Y?

00:57:07.720 –> 00:57:09.000
EZRA VANCIL: An I.

00:57:09.260 –> 00:57:11.520
ROBONZO: You two are working, what’s that?

00:57:11.520 –> 00:57:12.660
EZRA VANCIL: Cozi.

00:57:12.660 –> 00:57:13.660
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah.

00:57:13.720 –> 00:57:16.920
ROBONZO: So you’re already working on a new album?

00:57:16.920 –> 00:57:19.680
EZRA VANCIL: Yes, we’re working on our third album.

00:57:20.780 –> 00:57:22.300
ROBONZO: Did I miss one?

00:57:22.300 –> 00:57:24.600
EZRA VANCIL: Well, it’s one of those things.

00:57:24.600 –> 00:57:26.620
EZRA VANCIL: I don’t even know how to.

00:57:26.620 –> 00:57:30.180
EZRA VANCIL: So what our second album never really got released.

00:57:30.180 –> 00:57:30.620
ROBONZO: Okay.

00:57:30.620 –> 00:57:35.360
EZRA VANCIL: And I’m going to blame it on her getting married because it was finished.

00:57:35.360 –> 00:57:37.580
EZRA VANCIL: We released one song, we made a music video.

00:57:37.580 –> 00:57:38.860
EZRA VANCIL: It’s called Bobby Zimmerman.

00:57:38.860 –> 00:57:44.480
EZRA VANCIL: You can go find it on Spotify or YouTube with a music video.

00:57:44.480 –> 00:57:48.520
EZRA VANCIL: And then the whole project just fell apart because she started thinking about getting married.

00:57:50.140 –> 00:57:51.560
EZRA VANCIL: And so it just fell apart.

00:57:52.520 –> 00:58:01.560
EZRA VANCIL: And I didn’t release the album because it’s so good that I just can’t do it justice without Cozi helping me promote it.

00:58:01.560 –> 00:58:02.580
EZRA VANCIL: And so she’s back.

00:58:02.580 –> 00:58:04.380
EZRA VANCIL: That’s all I can say.

00:58:04.380 –> 00:58:06.940
ROBONZO: So maybe that one will see the light of day.

00:58:06.940 –> 00:58:07.660
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:58:07.660 –> 00:58:18.080
EZRA VANCIL: In fact, I think we’re going to use it to kind of hop our audience back up and slowly leak that out to the streaming and do some videos for that second album.

00:58:18.820 –> 00:58:27.040
EZRA VANCIL: So that by the time we’ll get the third one done, that we’ll have our kind of an audience there to hear it.

00:58:27.040 –> 00:58:29.760
ROBONZO: Wow.

00:58:29.760 –> 00:58:33.840
ROBONZO: What do you suspect your timeline is for the third album?

00:58:33.840 –> 00:58:40.780
EZRA VANCIL: We’re trying to get everything done and have it releasing by next June.

00:58:41.900 –> 00:58:47.920
EZRA VANCIL: So we’re going to be working on it real heavy this part of the year and the early part of next year.

00:58:50.040 –> 00:58:51.180
ROBONZO: Cool.

00:58:51.180 –> 00:58:51.760
ROBONZO: I like it.

00:58:51.760 –> 00:58:52.380
ROBONZO: That’s great.

00:58:52.600 –> 00:58:58.460
ROBONZO: It’s kind of maybe could turn out to be fortuitous that you kept that second one in the can.

00:58:58.460 –> 00:59:03.920
EZRA VANCIL: You know, I think it actually is going to be a really good kind of re-

00:59:04.360 –> 00:59:09.980
EZRA VANCIL: wake everybody back up because everybody was very excited with Cozi and The Flounder and then we just disappeared.

00:59:10.560 –> 00:59:13.100
EZRA VANCIL: And so I got to go like, hey, we’re still here.

00:59:13.100 –> 00:59:16.520
EZRA VANCIL: Here’s that album that I said I was going to release that we never did.

00:59:18.800 –> 00:59:20.700
ROBONZO: Cozi getting married, dang it.

00:59:20.700 –> 00:59:21.360
EZRA VANCIL: I know.

00:59:21.360 –> 00:59:23.100
EZRA VANCIL: Just threw a wrench and everything.

00:59:23.100 –> 00:59:25.100
ROBONZO: That’s funny.

00:59:25.100 –> 00:59:28.220
ROBONZO: You started Near Home Records.

00:59:28.220 –> 00:59:30.820
ROBONZO: Tell me if I got this right, the details right.

00:59:30.820 –> 00:59:47.180
ROBONZO: You started it was part of, I don’t know if it was the beginning, but it’s part of creating some separation between the art and the business sides of your music, and it is your record label, right?

00:59:47.180 –> 00:59:49.020
ROBONZO: Yes.

00:59:49.020 –> 00:59:50.840
ROBONZO: So how long has it been going?

00:59:50.840 –> 00:59:55.360
EZRA VANCIL: I think it started in 2016 for my live album.

00:59:55.360 –> 00:59:56.040
ROBONZO: Okay.

00:59:56.040 –> 00:59:57.240
ROBONZO: It’s been a while.

00:59:57.240 –> 00:59:58.400
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

00:59:58.400 –> 01:00:01.600
EZRA VANCIL: So it’s been going a while, and I have three artists on it.

01:00:01.600 –> 01:00:07.820
EZRA VANCIL: I have me, Cozi and a Flounder, and my little brother Isaac is on Near Home.

01:00:07.820 –> 01:00:08.640
ROBONZO: Cool.

01:00:08.640 –> 01:00:10.040
ROBONZO: A family label.

01:00:10.040 –> 01:00:11.260
EZRA VANCIL: It’s a family label.

01:00:11.260 –> 01:00:11.840
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

01:00:11.840 –> 01:00:17.180
EZRA VANCIL: And in fact, we’re finishing an album for my mom, who’s in her, oh gosh, how old is she?

01:00:17.200 –> 01:00:18.740
EZRA VANCIL: 70s.

01:00:18.740 –> 01:00:22.520
EZRA VANCIL: And we’re finishing an album, and she’ll be on Near Home.

01:00:22.520 –> 01:00:25.100
ROBONZO: She’s doing an album.

01:00:25.100 –> 01:00:27.000
ROBONZO: Wow.

01:00:27.000 –> 01:00:28.100
ROBONZO: Pretty awesome.

01:00:28.140 –> 01:00:29.920
EZRA VANCIL: The family business here.

01:00:29.920 –> 01:00:30.580
ROBONZO: That’s crazy.

01:00:30.580 –> 01:00:34.880
ROBONZO: Do you think you’ll ever have artists outside the family on it?

01:00:34.880 –> 01:00:37.420
EZRA VANCIL: You know, that was really the hope.

01:00:38.620 –> 01:00:49.620
EZRA VANCIL: I wanted to create something that was more of a project of, and I did, it kind of started doing this, and then just the busyness of life, it fell apart.

01:00:49.620 –> 01:00:54.800
EZRA VANCIL: But I wanted to do, you know, the like the Make-A-Wish Foundation.

01:00:55.380 –> 01:01:10.720
EZRA VANCIL: I felt so, when I got, you know, kind of got my life together in my 40s, everything before that was an incredible struggle to just get anything in music done.

01:01:10.720 –> 01:01:16.200
EZRA VANCIL: And especially to do any kind of dream album, you know, I was like recording in my closet.

01:01:16.200 –> 01:01:28.540
EZRA VANCIL: I just didn’t have any money or, and I had this idea that Near Home would be kind of a grant type thing that we would help people make their dream album.

01:01:28.540 –> 01:01:42.780
EZRA VANCIL: And I did it for a few, like I didn’t help them make an album, but I did a few local artists that I knew of personally that were just really dedicated artists, but were having a hard time financing their projects.

01:01:42.780 –> 01:01:48.980
EZRA VANCIL: And so I did that with them for a few people and I did it with a partner.

01:01:48.980 –> 01:01:57.100
EZRA VANCIL: And I hoped it would turn into something and I still think it will maybe as I get older, that I can go back into working on that.

01:01:57.100 –> 01:01:59.160
EZRA VANCIL: So it’d be like a non-profit.

01:01:59.160 –> 01:02:01.360
EZRA VANCIL: That’s why I had the.org on there.

01:02:01.480 –> 01:02:06.020
EZRA VANCIL: I wanted it to be like a non-profit label.

01:02:06.020 –> 01:02:09.420
ROBONZO: There’s a guy in California that I am acquainted with.

01:02:09.420 –> 01:02:11.200
ROBONZO: He’s been on the podcast.

01:02:11.200 –> 01:02:12.420
ROBONZO: Been a while since I’ve talked to him.

01:02:12.420 –> 01:02:14.720
ROBONZO: His name is Kid Andersen.

01:02:14.780 –> 01:02:15.960
EZRA VANCIL: I’ve heard his name.

01:02:15.980 –> 01:02:17.060
ROBONZO: He’s from Norway.

01:02:17.060 –> 01:02:18.960
ROBONZO: He’s a superb musician.

01:02:18.960 –> 01:02:23.500
ROBONZO: He’s really, he’s very versatile, but he’s very immersed in the blues scene.

01:02:23.500 –> 01:02:28.400
ROBONZO: But his studio is called Greaseland Studios.

01:02:28.400 –> 01:02:31.380
ROBONZO: He’s won some awards for his production.

01:02:31.380 –> 01:02:33.460
ROBONZO: And it’s a home studio.

01:02:36.500 –> 01:02:39.760
ROBONZO: They did, so Greaseland is his thing.

01:02:39.760 –> 01:02:45.380
ROBONZO: It’s not a non-profit, but they did this project that I’m sure you could read about.

01:02:45.380 –> 01:02:57.500
ROBONZO: Their goal was to bring to light some blues music by guys who just weren’t otherwise going to be recorded quite possibly.

01:02:57.500 –> 01:03:02.240
ROBONZO: And anyway, it might be kind of interesting to look at.

01:03:02.240 –> 01:03:07.140
ROBONZO: I think it was called a Little Village Foundation or Little Village Project.

01:03:07.140 –> 01:03:14.000
ROBONZO: So Little Village Foundation and Greaseland Studios and Kid Andersen, those three things will probably help you find it if you’re ever interested.

01:03:14.000 –> 01:03:23.920
ROBONZO: I seem to recall they had someone that championed kind of getting it going and some of the finances and stuff.

01:03:23.920 –> 01:03:36.500
ROBONZO: And yeah, I don’t know if there’s a lot of detail in the story of how it emerged and did what it did, but it might be kind of interesting given what you were hoping you’d do with yours.

01:03:36.500 –> 01:03:38.020
EZRA VANCIL: I will definitely look into that.

01:03:38.780 –> 01:03:48.380
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, you know, and that is exactly what, like in my life, you know, I’ve just known probably hundreds of musicians and there’s a few of them.

01:03:48.380 –> 01:04:03.040
EZRA VANCIL: Well, I’ll say a few every four or five years that I get to know that are just such, they’re making such beautiful music, but because of their life circumstances, it could be financial, it could just be kind of some tragedies in their life.

01:04:04.760 –> 01:04:10.360
EZRA VANCIL: They’re just unable to ever get past, do all this stuff that we’re talking about, you know.

01:04:10.360 –> 01:04:11.400
ROBONZO: I mean, it’s a lot.

01:04:11.400 –> 01:04:16.340
ROBONZO: It’s a lot to just to fucking release a song, much less, you know.

01:04:16.340 –> 01:04:17.100
EZRA VANCIL: I know, man.

01:04:17.100 –> 01:04:27.440
EZRA VANCIL: It’s like how to, you know, it takes like an incredible amount of energy, not just to make the music, but to put it out there in the world in a proper way.

01:04:27.440 –> 01:04:41.560
EZRA VANCIL: And so that’s why I’m definitely will look into this, because that’s where my heart is, is like, you know, I would just love to be able to help somebody that wouldn’t have another way to just get a little spotlight on their music.

01:04:41.560 –> 01:04:42.280
ROBONZO: Yeah.

01:04:42.280 –> 01:04:42.480
ROBONZO: Yeah.

01:04:42.480 –> 01:04:44.480
ROBONZO: Maybe there’s something in there.

01:04:44.480 –> 01:04:56.600
ROBONZO: Kid is, Kid Andersen himself, I believe he’s really just, he’s a musician and a studio engineer at heart.

01:04:56.600 –> 01:05:15.300
ROBONZO: But there were, there must have been, I think there was somebody else, and maybe a couple of people who were very involved in helping that project come to life and they picked Kid Andersen in his studio to do the things to make him get recorded.

01:05:15.300 –> 01:05:16.960
ROBONZO: But yeah, maybe there’s something there.

01:05:16.960 –> 01:05:17.420
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

01:05:17.600 –> 01:05:18.400
ROBONZO: I’ll keep my eyes open.

01:05:18.780 –> 01:05:21.340
ROBONZO: It sounds like such an interesting idea.

01:05:21.340 –> 01:05:24.820
ROBONZO: So if I ever think of anything else or anyone that maybe it’d be worth talking to.

01:05:24.820 –> 01:05:26.680
EZRA VANCIL: Can I tell you one little story around that?

01:05:26.680 –> 01:05:28.020
EZRA VANCIL: Because you made me think of that.

01:05:28.200 –> 01:05:31.800
EZRA VANCIL: Because it does take, it would for me for sure take other people helping.

01:05:31.800 –> 01:05:39.180
EZRA VANCIL: But I had, this was all based on, he was older than me, probably 15 years older than me.

01:05:39.180 –> 01:05:49.520
EZRA VANCIL: But he was a musician when I was young, just in our local area and our family circle that inspired me all through my life to want to play music.

01:05:49.560 –> 01:05:51.440
EZRA VANCIL: His name was Peter Salico.

01:05:51.440 –> 01:05:58.480
EZRA VANCIL: He passed away around the time I created this label, and or where I got the idea for this.

01:05:58.480 –> 01:06:06.320
EZRA VANCIL: And one of the things he did in his later life is he would call me after every, he was on my email list.

01:06:06.320 –> 01:06:15.780
EZRA VANCIL: And every time I sent out an email, he would either just write back or he would call me and he’d go, Ezra, keep going, keep going.

01:06:15.780 –> 01:06:28.900
EZRA VANCIL: And it almost makes me want to tear up because because it can get so difficult, especially, I mean, I know you know this and everybody does when you’ve worked so hard and you’re just trying to put that out there into the world.

01:06:28.900 –> 01:06:30.360
EZRA VANCIL: And there’s just disappointments.

01:06:30.360 –> 01:06:32.980
EZRA VANCIL: Nobody streams it, nobody downloads it.

01:06:32.980 –> 01:06:37.760
EZRA VANCIL: I would get this call from him, a voice message or a text or something.

01:06:37.760 –> 01:06:40.220
EZRA VANCIL: And all it would say is keep going.

01:06:41.300 –> 01:06:54.000
EZRA VANCIL: And that’s really the dream I had was just something that says that and gives a little bit of something to help somebody go a few more miles on their musical venture.

01:06:54.000 –> 01:06:57.460
EZRA VANCIL: I just always remember that, how much that meant to me.

01:06:57.460 –> 01:07:15.620
EZRA VANCIL: Just people can say nice things, but to have somebody that he knew what I was feeling, facing the world with my guitar, just like he had, and that we need encouragement, just to keep going, because there comes so many times.

01:07:15.620 –> 01:07:19.600
EZRA VANCIL: I have a friend named Paco Estrada, who’s on this album also.

01:07:19.600 –> 01:07:23.880
EZRA VANCIL: And he’s a lifelong musician, working musician.

01:07:23.880 –> 01:07:29.160
EZRA VANCIL: And this is something we’ve talked about on a podcast that we did on YouTube.

01:07:29.160 –> 01:07:33.300
EZRA VANCIL: Just how, because I was asking, do you ever have times where you want to put it down?

01:07:33.300 –> 01:07:35.060
EZRA VANCIL: And he goes, every month.

01:07:35.800 –> 01:07:40.120
EZRA VANCIL: I want to give up and put it down, you know, and put the guitar down.

01:07:40.120 –> 01:07:49.220
EZRA VANCIL: And, you know, I just think about those conversations with him of just, we’re all kind of going through that, those doubts and everything.

01:07:49.220 –> 01:07:54.580
EZRA VANCIL: And we need this encouragement, you know, to keep working towards our dream.

01:07:54.580 –> 01:07:59.120
EZRA VANCIL: Because, you know, the world needs real human music, you know.

01:07:59.120 –> 01:08:00.520
EZRA VANCIL: It doesn’t need AI music.

01:08:00.920 –> 01:08:02.340
EZRA VANCIL: It needs human music.

01:08:02.340 –> 01:08:03.340
ROBONZO: So true.

01:08:03.340 –> 01:08:08.680
ROBONZO: You’re reminding me, I’ve written about it not terribly long ago, but I’ve experienced it.

01:08:08.680 –> 01:08:11.720
ROBONZO: I’ve seen, heard stories kind of like yours from others.

01:08:11.720 –> 01:08:18.480
ROBONZO: But, you know, there’s nothing like having somebody who believes in you, you know, champions what you’re doing and supports you.

01:08:18.620 –> 01:08:22.280
ROBONZO: And that comes in so many different forms.

01:08:22.280 –> 01:08:26.640
ROBONZO: And sometimes it’s somebody who can make a huge difference just with their words.

01:08:26.640 –> 01:08:32.480
ROBONZO: Sometimes it’s somebody who can do that plus more, you know, maybe money or something.

01:08:32.480 –> 01:08:41.320
ROBONZO: And sometimes it’s just somebody that, you know, helps make it happen in a very minor way, but gets things started.

01:08:41.320 –> 01:08:46.260
ROBONZO: It’s so important, you know, to have that believers, yeah.

01:08:46.260 –> 01:08:49.420
EZRA VANCIL: There’s always been those people in my life, you know.

01:08:49.420 –> 01:08:51.280
ROBONZO: You know.

01:08:51.320 –> 01:09:11.020
ROBONZO: How, so it’s, I’m not sure you’re going to have a great answer for this because you had sort of an interruption as we were talking about, but you, we talked about you trying to share with Cozi, like everything you had, you know, for business in music, you know, like the business side of it so she could have a leg up.

01:09:11.020 –> 01:09:21.600
ROBONZO: What would you say are or maybe are still to be the most important lessons you’ll focus on or have focused on with her?

01:09:21.600 –> 01:09:41.040
ROBONZO: And for those who are listening, so there’s a past conversation on the podcast, with you and Cozi, to put it in perspective, and she’s your younger daughter, and she was kind of getting started in a more serious fashion with the project you guys had, Cozi Anda Flounder.

01:09:41.040 –> 01:09:47.580
ROBONZO: So now, you know, she’s a little older, but yeah, what do you have to tell me?

01:09:47.580 –> 01:10:03.140
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, well, I think, you know, strangely enough, I think she’s using everything we learned in music in her, because she’s a Pilates instructor and she decided she wanted to do that.

01:10:03.140 –> 01:10:05.020
EZRA VANCIL: And she went out and got certified.

01:10:05.020 –> 01:10:06.980
EZRA VANCIL: She’s like about to be a level three.

01:10:06.980 –> 01:10:12.680
EZRA VANCIL: I don’t know what all that means, but I know she’s spent a year certifying.

01:10:12.680 –> 01:10:26.080
EZRA VANCIL: And I think she took that from music because music, what we learn together is to face our fears, I think, because when she started with me on stage, I think she was 11 or 12, probably 12.

01:10:26.100 –> 01:10:29.120
EZRA VANCIL: 12 or 13 was her first show with me.

01:10:29.120 –> 01:10:36.820
EZRA VANCIL: And we’ve played festivals, we’ve won awards, we’ve traveled and played for big rooms.

01:10:36.820 –> 01:10:45.720
EZRA VANCIL: And the biggest thing I think she’s taken away is to not take herself too serious because all of us mess up and say the wrong thing.

01:10:45.720 –> 01:10:48.540
EZRA VANCIL: So you kinda have to have a sense of humor.

01:10:48.540 –> 01:10:55.340
EZRA VANCIL: And the second is your fear is actually probably a compass telling you where you need to go.

01:10:55.340 –> 01:10:58.540
EZRA VANCIL: It’s pointing away from where you need to go.

01:10:58.540 –> 01:11:09.100
EZRA VANCIL: And I think now in our conversations a lot that she will identify fear that she’s having and how she’s walking towards it instead of away from it.

01:11:09.100 –> 01:11:22.480
EZRA VANCIL: And so when I think of music, that’s a, man, I gotta tell you, our first time making an album with her, it was actually not Cozi Anda Flounder, it’s my album called The Family Songbook, and she was 11, and she was singing on that.

01:11:22.480 –> 01:11:23.020
ROBONZO: It was amazing.

01:11:23.020 –> 01:11:34.340
EZRA VANCIL: And it was a studio full of tears, because it was the first time she heard her voice on tape, and I don’t know if you remember that experience, but it’s horrifying.

01:11:34.340 –> 01:11:38.960
EZRA VANCIL: She was convinced that she sounded like she thought she did in the shower.

01:11:38.960 –> 01:11:53.560
EZRA VANCIL: And we worked for like a year with her in my studio, really just getting over her fears of, because you have to be a little vulnerable when you’re singing, and when you’re working with somebody, you hit bad notes.

01:11:53.560 –> 01:11:55.500
EZRA VANCIL: And so kind of her vulnerability…

01:11:55.500 –> 01:11:57.000
ROBONZO: It’s not just me.

01:11:57.000 –> 01:11:57.800
EZRA VANCIL: Right.

01:11:57.800 –> 01:11:59.720
EZRA VANCIL: I feel that way too.

01:11:59.720 –> 01:12:05.200
EZRA VANCIL: But I just remember times on that studio floor, she would just go on the floor and just start crying.

01:12:05.200 –> 01:12:07.400
EZRA VANCIL: It’s like, I can’t do it.

01:12:07.400 –> 01:12:11.240
EZRA VANCIL: So there’s like this long lineage of us facing our fears.

01:12:11.240 –> 01:12:13.020
EZRA VANCIL: And she’s helped me face some of mine too.

01:12:13.860 –> 01:12:24.080
EZRA VANCIL: So I would say that’s the biggest thing is don’t take your, if you’re afraid of something, now if it’s a snake, then that’s probably good.

01:12:24.080 –> 01:12:30.440
EZRA VANCIL: But if there’s a fear in your life, question whether you should walk towards it instead of away from it.

01:12:30.440 –> 01:12:36.380
EZRA VANCIL: And that it’s actually kind of calling you towards something bigger in yourself.

01:12:36.380 –> 01:12:38.460
EZRA VANCIL: And I hope I taught her that.

01:12:38.460 –> 01:12:40.440
EZRA VANCIL: And I kind of see her utilizing that.

01:12:41.120 –> 01:12:41.700
ROBONZO: That’s amazing.

01:12:41.700 –> 01:12:45.180
ROBONZO: She’s probably utilizing the stuff in her painting as well, or will.

01:12:45.180 –> 01:12:47.700
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, she does.

01:12:47.700 –> 01:12:51.220
EZRA VANCIL: And I just love my wife, Halle, is an artist too.

01:12:51.240 –> 01:12:54.040
EZRA VANCIL: And so I have this family and my son’s a writer.

01:12:54.040 –> 01:13:01.860
EZRA VANCIL: So I love there’s nothing I love more than what we’re doing right here is just talking about art and music.

01:13:01.860 –> 01:13:15.240
EZRA VANCIL: And so we’re always talking about this about art and her painting and different things she’s experiencing and trying to get over and, you know, so I really cherish that relationship.

01:13:16.400 –> 01:13:24.400
ROBONZO: I was thinking early in the conversation and just now again, too, I should I would like to talk to Cozi again.

01:13:24.400 –> 01:13:26.860
EZRA VANCIL: Well, yeah, what can I?

01:13:26.860 –> 01:13:30.540
EZRA VANCIL: I’m sure she’d be glad to talk where we’re starting back up.

01:13:30.540 –> 01:13:34.600
EZRA VANCIL: We have a show next, a house concert next in a few weeks.

01:13:34.600 –> 01:13:36.940
EZRA VANCIL: And then we’re starting to play again.

01:13:37.100 –> 01:13:39.240
EZRA VANCIL: So she is she’s down.

01:13:39.240 –> 01:13:39.560
ROBONZO: That’s cool.

01:13:39.560 –> 01:13:40.360
EZRA VANCIL: She’s back.

01:13:40.360 –> 01:13:43.640
EZRA VANCIL: She’s certified in her Pilates and now she can come back.

01:13:43.640 –> 01:13:48.260
ROBONZO: Married, certified and ready to rock and roll.

01:13:48.260 –> 01:13:48.960
ROBONZO: That’s great.

01:13:48.960 –> 01:13:50.620
ROBONZO: What are you guys doing special for the house concert?

01:13:50.620 –> 01:13:53.100
ROBONZO: And I’m asking because I’m playing one.

01:13:53.100 –> 01:13:55.480
ROBONZO: It’s a bit of a I want to call it a hybrid.

01:13:55.480 –> 01:14:00.200
ROBONZO: It’s not really but it’s not super traditional in terms of a house concert.

01:14:00.200 –> 01:14:03.780
ROBONZO: But there are going to be three acts there.

01:14:05.440 –> 01:14:08.720
ROBONZO: One solo, one small ensemble that sounds really big.

01:14:08.720 –> 01:14:12.120
ROBONZO: And then I’m going to do an acoustic thing in an acoustic trio.

01:14:12.120 –> 01:14:16.820
ROBONZO: And so I’ll be singing and playing a little cajon and a little guitar.

01:14:16.820 –> 01:14:18.460
ROBONZO: I don’t have a guitar, some bass player with me.

01:14:18.460 –> 01:14:22.380
ROBONZO: But yeah, so like what kinds of things?

01:14:22.380 –> 01:14:32.940
ROBONZO: I’m really interested to know if you’re doing things that, well, A for the show itself to try and have like good impact, whether it’s visual or sonically or both.

01:14:33.340 –> 01:14:39.540
ROBONZO: And also like things to help grow your audience afterwards.

01:14:39.540 –> 01:14:41.720
EZRA VANCIL: Man, I’ve learned so much about house concerts.

01:14:41.720 –> 01:14:44.120
EZRA VANCIL: First of all, I just love them so much.

01:14:44.120 –> 01:14:50.820
EZRA VANCIL: It’s almost like it’s a step down to go into a venue now because of the, just how great they can be.

01:14:50.820 –> 01:14:52.960
EZRA VANCIL: And they can also not be great.

01:14:52.960 –> 01:14:56.160
EZRA VANCIL: You know, the biggest thing I’ve picked up, and I wish I knew her name.

01:14:56.160 –> 01:14:58.380
EZRA VANCIL: I read a book from a girl.

01:14:58.440 –> 01:14:59.860
ROBONZO: Shannon Curtis.

01:14:59.860 –> 01:15:00.600
EZRA VANCIL: I believe that’s her.

01:15:00.600 –> 01:15:01.160
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

01:15:01.160 –> 01:15:02.240
EZRA VANCIL: She wrote about house.

01:15:02.240 –> 01:15:02.900
EZRA VANCIL: Okay, good.

01:15:02.900 –> 01:15:06.400
ROBONZO: So no, no, no bartender, no booker, something like that.

01:15:06.400 –> 01:15:08.500
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, I picked up something from her.

01:15:08.500 –> 01:15:13.740
EZRA VANCIL: And I don’t know if it’s directly from her or just kind of thought about it while reading her book.

01:15:13.740 –> 01:15:24.560
EZRA VANCIL: But the biggest thing I’ve found is to make sure people do something that makes it feel like this is an event and it’s not a house party.

01:15:25.720 –> 01:15:34.600
EZRA VANCIL: And the best way to do that is to do ticket donations at the door or even donations for tickets.

01:15:34.600 –> 01:15:38.080
EZRA VANCIL: But some way of ticketing it.

01:15:38.080 –> 01:15:43.040
EZRA VANCIL: And the second thing is to have seeding already planned out.

01:15:44.060 –> 01:15:51.580
EZRA VANCIL: Because the first thing gets them into a mindset of, I’m going to an event, I’m not going to someone’s house to drink in the corner.

01:15:52.800 –> 01:16:00.980
EZRA VANCIL: The second one of having your seeding figured out beforehand is to set it up kind of like an event.

01:16:00.980 –> 01:16:06.340
EZRA VANCIL: Because, and also think of your space, that there’s not a lot of places to escape.

01:16:06.340 –> 01:16:12.160
EZRA VANCIL: Because the ones that I’ve done like this, and we really thought about, how do we set up chairs?

01:16:12.160 –> 01:16:15.880
EZRA VANCIL: And how do we not allow places to escape?

01:16:15.880 –> 01:16:19.140
EZRA VANCIL: Or where it’s uncomfortable to escape?

01:16:19.140 –> 01:16:20.840
EZRA VANCIL: Is that people will escape.

01:16:21.080 –> 01:16:23.880
EZRA VANCIL: Nobody wants to sit on those front rows.

01:16:23.880 –> 01:16:28.660
EZRA VANCIL: Everybody wants to get as far as way as possible, except your mama, you know?

01:16:28.660 –> 01:16:35.140
EZRA VANCIL: And they will do it, if there’s not some kind of thought into how the seating goes.

01:16:35.140 –> 01:16:41.520
EZRA VANCIL: And I’ll add a third thing, is that I always have like a, I usually like the host to do it, not me.

01:16:41.520 –> 01:16:44.600
EZRA VANCIL: But just to prepare everybody, like, hey, this is a house concert.

01:16:44.600 –> 01:16:46.440
EZRA VANCIL: I don’t know if you’ve been to one.

01:16:46.440 –> 01:16:47.580
EZRA VANCIL: It’s a little bit different.

01:16:47.840 –> 01:16:49.520
EZRA VANCIL: It’s a listening room.

01:16:49.820 –> 01:16:52.400
EZRA VANCIL: So we’re not talking, turn off your phones.

01:16:52.400 –> 01:16:57.680
EZRA VANCIL: Let’s experience this music in a room together.

01:16:57.680 –> 01:16:59.520
EZRA VANCIL: And, you know, kind of set it up.

01:16:59.520 –> 01:17:00.980
EZRA VANCIL: But this is a little bit different.

01:17:00.980 –> 01:17:02.840
EZRA VANCIL: If you need to go to the bathroom, then go this way.

01:17:02.840 –> 01:17:05.300
EZRA VANCIL: You know, tell them all the things.

01:17:05.300 –> 01:17:09.660
EZRA VANCIL: Those three things, though, I think set up a good house concert.

01:17:09.660 –> 01:17:12.140
ROBONZO: Yeah, the best, I can vouch for it.

01:17:12.140 –> 01:17:16.760
ROBONZO: The best ones I’ve done have been where it’s very controlled in all these ways.

01:17:18.620 –> 01:17:24.700
ROBONZO: This one will be, although I’ll have an opportunity to help the host try and make it a little more like this.

01:17:24.700 –> 01:17:31.500
ROBONZO: I’m glad that we’re talking about it, but this one’s a little bit looser than that.

01:17:31.500 –> 01:17:39.560
ROBONZO: But they go well still, but it is all the more special when it’s like a true listening room.

01:17:39.560 –> 01:17:41.780
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, and it can be great, you know, otherwise.

01:17:41.780 –> 01:17:56.700
EZRA VANCIL: But there is, if you’ve had it, there’s a moment you have with a group of people in that really intimate space that once people that host a house concert with me, once they’ve experienced that, they want that again, because it’s very special.

01:17:56.700 –> 01:18:01.720
EZRA VANCIL: And, you know, the other one, you know, if it gets too loose, it can still be fun.

01:18:01.720 –> 01:18:04.760
EZRA VANCIL: It’s just a different kind of fun, you know.

01:18:06.340 –> 01:18:11.840
ROBONZO: Yep, this, and I’ve done one at this person’s home before, and they’ve been successful.

01:18:11.840 –> 01:18:21.860
ROBONZO: But, you know, I did one in Panama, and the host was very, like, dedicated to try and execute it.

01:18:21.860 –> 01:18:24.820
ROBONZO: If I can use that word in a way like we’re describing here.

01:18:24.820 –> 01:18:31.240
ROBONZO: And she did a great job, and she even looked back on it and go, you know, if I was doing it again, or if I do it again, I’ll, you know, make sure.

01:18:31.240 –> 01:18:33.320
ROBONZO: And it was basically about the whole escape paths.

01:18:35.500 –> 01:18:36.840
EZRA VANCIL: That’s the big deal, yeah.

01:18:36.840 –> 01:18:38.520
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah, she would have changed that.

01:18:38.520 –> 01:18:41.700
ROBONZO: But otherwise, she, you know, did it flawlessly.

01:18:42.380 –> 01:18:43.280
ROBONZO: And it was great.

01:18:43.280 –> 01:18:44.740
ROBONZO: It was really great.

01:18:44.740 –> 01:18:53.180
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, that’s interesting, because I do find that if I can, you know, that I think, what was the girl’s name that wrote the book again?

01:18:53.180 –> 01:18:54.440
ROBONZO: Shannon Curtis.

01:18:54.440 –> 01:18:55.200
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

01:18:55.200 –> 01:19:01.660
EZRA VANCIL: So I think she suggested this too, is where you have something written out that kind of gives it to the host.

01:19:01.700 –> 01:19:02.660
ROBONZO: Yep.

01:19:02.660 –> 01:19:15.840
EZRA VANCIL: But once they once they’ve done it, they themselves take over and want that, you know, and I haven’t the ones that I go back to, I don’t really have to be a part of that anymore, because they’re very aware.

01:19:15.840 –> 01:19:17.020
ROBONZO: They’re seasoned.

01:19:17.020 –> 01:19:17.880
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, they’re seasoned.

01:19:17.880 –> 01:19:25.540
EZRA VANCIL: And they know a little even more than I do about how to get their audience into a space that’s going to work well.

01:19:25.540 –> 01:19:38.820
ROBONZO: It’s you know, I just thought of this, but probably everyone’s like every host has a unique audience and a sort of a unique way of you know, kind of managing for lack of a better word or making the event the best it can be for the artist and for the audience.

01:19:38.820 –> 01:19:47.040
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, you gotta be kind of loose with that because I’ve had hosts where that ticketing thing was just not they didn’t feel right.

01:19:47.040 –> 01:19:49.300
EZRA VANCIL: You know, it’s their neighbors and stuff.

01:19:49.300 –> 01:19:50.160
EZRA VANCIL: And that’s fine.

01:19:50.160 –> 01:19:57.300
EZRA VANCIL: It’s just kind of, if you do like you know, one of these things well, then you have a great chance that it’s going to be.

01:19:57.300 –> 01:19:59.600
ROBONZO: I’m going to tell you something that this guy does.

01:19:59.600 –> 01:20:03.920
ROBONZO: He didn’t do the first time, but he was at a normal gig.

01:20:03.920 –> 01:20:07.060
ROBONZO: And they did this because it was a donation gig.

01:20:07.060 –> 01:20:11.520
ROBONZO: So it was normal in the respect that it was at like a normal venue, normal ish.

01:20:11.520 –> 01:20:17.660
ROBONZO: But he gives every, you know, these little tiny, tiny miniature manila envelopes.

01:20:17.660 –> 01:20:19.880
ROBONZO: It looks like a miniature legal envelope.

01:20:19.880 –> 01:20:22.900
ROBONZO: Not like not like letter size, but like it might hold contracts or something.

01:20:22.900 –> 01:20:27.520
ROBONZO: But it’s like a wee tiny thing that you might can put a post-it note in or something.

01:20:27.520 –> 01:20:35.500
ROBONZO: So it gives everyone one of those to make their donations throughout or at the end of the show.

01:20:35.500 –> 01:20:37.020
ROBONZO: And it seemed to work really well.

01:20:37.020 –> 01:20:50.600
ROBONZO: He somehow, I don’t know if it was just like some sense of anonymity as far as what you were giving or if it was like maybe a reminder that, oh yeah, you know, we’re doing this donation thing.

01:20:50.600 –> 01:20:51.460
EZRA VANCIL: That is very good.

01:20:51.460 –> 01:20:51.640
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

01:20:51.820 –> 01:21:02.380
EZRA VANCIL: Cause a bucket going around, everybody’s watching and yeah, it removes some of the pressure of it, you know, cause you could just throw that thing away.

01:21:02.380 –> 01:21:02.600
ROBONZO: Yeah.

01:21:02.600 –> 01:21:04.840
ROBONZO: And he, you know, that’s okay.

01:21:05.360 –> 01:21:19.080
ROBONZO: I know Shannon had said, she’s very specific in the book about to like have a, she calls it a vessel, have a vessel like at the stage, near the stage that everyone walks up to.

01:21:19.080 –> 01:21:19.920
ROBONZO: Yeah.

01:21:19.920 –> 01:21:21.380
ROBONZO: And so he does that too.

01:21:21.500 –> 01:21:31.220
ROBONZO: But everyone walks up, you know, has their little envelopes and, you know, and like, I feel kind of feel like Shannon also said, she’s like, we don’t want, we don’t want people to not come enjoy the music because of money.

01:21:31.220 –> 01:21:33.600
ROBONZO: So it’s basically, you know, give what you can.

01:21:33.600 –> 01:21:33.980
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah.

01:21:33.980 –> 01:21:38.260
EZRA VANCIL: And that’s definitely, that’s, that’s always the spirit of it.

01:21:38.260 –> 01:21:40.800
EZRA VANCIL: There is, I did this for a while.

01:21:40.800 –> 01:21:47.920
EZRA VANCIL: I haven’t done it recently, but for a couple of years, all of my merch was donation only.

01:21:47.920 –> 01:21:49.480
EZRA VANCIL: You just donate whatever you can.

01:21:49.580 –> 01:21:57.160
EZRA VANCIL: I just would rather, or I’ll say not, not all my merch, not my t-shirts, but all of my CDs were donation.

01:21:57.160 –> 01:21:59.000
EZRA VANCIL: And just donate what you can.

01:21:59.000 –> 01:22:00.320
EZRA VANCIL: I’d rather you have it.

01:22:00.320 –> 01:22:09.160
EZRA VANCIL: If you don’t have any cash, I’d rather you just take one and have it than not leave, you know, not get one cause you don’t have 10 bucks or, and man, it was crazy.

01:22:09.160 –> 01:22:16.240
EZRA VANCIL: I was, I was like tripled my income from this because people, some people would just take one.

01:22:16.240 –> 01:22:21.060
EZRA VANCIL: And then some people would drop a dollar and then some people drop a hundred in there and some people would drop 200.

01:22:21.060 –> 01:22:41.740
EZRA VANCIL: It was, it was really crazy how much more money came from just offering it for free, you know, or for whatever they feel like it’s worth, you know, people have that conscious in them anyways, you know, I don’t do it now because I try to keep track of what I’m selling and for business reasons.

01:22:41.740 –> 01:22:44.300
EZRA VANCIL: But, but it does work.

01:22:44.300 –> 01:22:45.740
ROBONZO: Yeah, that’s interesting.

01:22:45.780 –> 01:22:49.520
ROBONZO: Yeah, and I think that’s another one of Shannon’s philosophies.

01:22:49.520 –> 01:22:56.300
ROBONZO: Like they took down the like recommended donation and just left it at, you know, give what you can and they started doing a lot better.

01:22:56.300 –> 01:23:02.300
ROBONZO: I didn’t talk to her in a long time, but I think she still does that like album every year and goes out and does the House of Concert thing.

01:23:02.300 –> 01:23:04.240
EZRA VANCIL: It was a great little book.

01:23:04.240 –> 01:23:08.840
EZRA VANCIL: That book, I never had done a house concert before that book.

01:23:08.840 –> 01:23:19.540
EZRA VANCIL: And you know, since then, I don’t know how many I’ve done and I have ones that are now like little festivals that I have to hit every year or, you know.

01:23:19.900 –> 01:23:23.340
ROBONZO: It’s kind of a weird concept down here, I think.

01:23:23.340 –> 01:23:29.880
ROBONZO: I don’t know if weird is the right word, but it’s just a cultural concept they’re not acquainted with.

01:23:29.880 –> 01:23:33.080
ROBONZO: So I have a bit of uphill to…

01:23:33.080 –> 01:23:33.530
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah…

01:23:33.530 –> 01:23:33.530
ROBONZO: .

01:23:33.530 –> 01:23:34.100
ROBONZO: with it.

01:23:35.060 –> 01:23:39.240
EZRA VANCIL: I think it’s kind of in the zeitgeist up here.

01:23:39.400 –> 01:23:42.200
EZRA VANCIL: People kind of know what it is now.

01:23:42.200 –> 01:23:42.960
ROBONZO: Yeah, totally.

01:23:43.140 –> 01:23:45.940
EZRA VANCIL: Or at least a listening room, they’ll know what that is.

01:23:45.940 –> 01:23:47.480
ROBONZO: Totally.

01:23:47.480 –> 01:23:52.620
ROBONZO: Well, I know I could keep you for another hour, but I think we probably went longer than I normally planned to.

01:23:52.620 –> 01:23:55.080
ROBONZO: And I actually have a lot of other questions.

01:23:55.080 –> 01:23:57.580
ROBONZO: So maybe we can do another one.

01:23:57.580 –> 01:23:58.740
EZRA VANCIL: Yeah, I’d love to, man.

01:23:58.740 –> 01:23:59.800
EZRA VANCIL: I really enjoy this.

01:23:59.800 –> 01:24:01.420
EZRA VANCIL: So good.

01:24:01.420 –> 01:24:01.840
ROBONZO: I’m glad.

01:24:01.840 –> 01:24:05.260
ROBONZO: It’s always really fun to catch up with you.

01:24:05.260 –> 01:24:11.940
ROBONZO: And I was talking to somebody, or maybe I was listening to somebody talking about these relationships.

01:24:12.000 –> 01:24:16.840
ROBONZO: And you know, like you wish you stayed in more contact.

01:24:16.840 –> 01:24:21.540
ROBONZO: But hey, I’ll take, you know, the reconnections anytime, you know, any way I can get them.

01:24:21.540 –> 01:24:25.760
ROBONZO: So I’m glad that I’m glad that your new single caught my attention.

01:24:25.760 –> 01:24:29.580
ROBONZO: And I wish you all the luck in the world with the new album.

01:24:29.580 –> 01:24:33.140
ROBONZO: I’m going to watch for the next live thing.

01:24:33.140 –> 01:24:38.840
ROBONZO: I think it’ll be a fun experience to just like, I’m all real curious how how it works for you and how you do it.

01:24:38.840 –> 01:24:40.940
ROBONZO: And I think other musicians will be too.

01:24:41.080 –> 01:24:42.380
ROBONZO: So I’ll try and help spread the word.

01:24:42.380 –> 01:24:43.980
ROBONZO: And I would like to talk to Cozi too.

01:24:43.980 –> 01:24:47.300
ROBONZO: Maybe you can put a bug in her ear and see if she’s up for it.

01:24:47.300 –> 01:24:48.600
ROBONZO: And we can talk.

01:24:48.620 –> 01:24:51.300
ROBONZO: Sounds like some interesting things going on.

01:24:51.300 –> 01:24:52.680
EZRA VANCIL: I will let her know.

01:24:52.680 –> 01:24:53.120
ROBONZO: Cool, man.

01:24:53.120 –> 01:24:57.720
ROBONZO: Well, as per usual, I will talk to you again.

01:24:57.720 –> 01:25:01.800
ROBONZO: And yeah, maybe we’ll we’ll set up another hour sometime.

01:25:01.800 –> 01:25:02.840
EZRA VANCIL: I would love it.

01:25:02.840 –> 01:25:03.880
EZRA VANCIL: Just let me know.

01:25:03.880 –> 01:25:04.420
ROBONZO: You got it.

01:25:04.420 –> 01:25:06.220
ROBONZO: Thanks a lot.

01:25:06.220 –> 01:25:09.040
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01:25:09.160 –> 01:25:11.160
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01:25:11.160 –> 01:25:14.000
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01:25:14.000 –> 01:25:16.720
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01:25:25.680 –> 01:25:28.000
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01:25:28.000 –> 01:25:31.260
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01:25:31.260 –> 01:25:43.020
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01:25:43.020 –> 01:25:47.580
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01:25:58.560 –> 01:26:02.480
ROBONZO: The music you’re hearing is New Gods Part 2, the instrumental mix by yours truly.

01:26:02.880 –> 01:26:07.600
ROBONZO: You can hear the full version, download it or buy it at robonzo.com.

01:26:07.600 –> 01:26:18.380
ROBONZO: And if all this was too much to remember or process, just go to the show notes for this episode at unstarvingmusician.com to find links to all the stuff talked about in this episode.

01:26:18.380 –> 01:26:22.460
ROBONZO: You can leave us feedback, questions, comments, complaints at unstarvingmusician.com/feedback.

01:26:25.000 –> 01:26:26.380
ROBONZO: Thanks for listening.

01:26:26.380 –> 01:26:28.560
ROBONZO: Peace, gratitude and a whole lot of love.