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ROBONZO: Welcome to another episode of The Unstarving Musician.

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ROBONZO: I’m Robonzo, your host, creator of the show.

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ROBONZO: How’s it going?

00:01:02.527 –> 00:01:04.347
ROBONZO: Are you keeping it together?

00:01:04.347 –> 00:01:05.867
ROBONZO: Are you all right?

00:01:05.867 –> 00:01:10.727
ROBONZO: Keeping your self-centered self in check?

00:01:10.727 –> 00:01:11.967
ROBONZO: I hope so.

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ROBONZO: My guest for this episode is session touring trumpet player, Johnny Thirkell, and man, does he have some stories?

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ROBONZO: We don’t talk a lot about those, but we do allude to them, and you can check out his book, which we talk about.

00:01:26.087 –> 00:01:30.167
ROBONZO: First, my feedback on the Bad Bunny Super Bowl Halftime Show.

00:01:30.167 –> 00:01:35.907
ROBONZO: It was entertaining, and it was great seeing Gaga and Ricky Martin join him.

00:01:35.907 –> 00:01:37.407
ROBONZO: What a visual spectacle.

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ROBONZO: If you’re bummed that he sang exclusively in Spanish, don’t feel bad.

00:01:41.507 –> 00:01:45.727
ROBONZO: I speak Spanish and I couldn’t understand most of what he was singing, but anyway, it was cool.

00:01:45.727 –> 00:01:49.927
ROBONZO: The game, meh, but congrats to the Seattle Seahawks.

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ROBONZO: I was actually rooting for them.

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ROBONZO: So, how does a session musician actually get hired by the likes of David Bowie or Paul McCartney or stay in rotation with major artists for decades?

00:02:03.187 –> 00:02:06.807
ROBONZO: Most musicians assume it’s about talent and luck.

00:02:06.807 –> 00:02:14.747
ROBONZO: Johnny Thirkell spent 50 years playing trumpet for some of the biggest names in music, having played on 38 number one albums.

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ROBONZO: His resume is ridiculous.

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ROBONZO: Bowie, McCartney, George Michael, The Who, Jamiroquai, Pet Shop Boys, Tina Turner, Eric Clapton, and on and on and on.

00:02:29.487 –> 00:02:36.047
ROBONZO: We talk about business systems, relationships, and genuinely caring.

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ROBONZO: We also hit on the relationship building framework that gets you in the room for some of these sessions, these incredible sessions like his.

00:02:43.827 –> 00:02:48.447
ROBONZO: The pricing strategies that make session work sustainable.

00:02:48.447 –> 00:02:52.287
ROBONZO: The professional standards that ensure callbacks.

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ROBONZO: The adaptation decisions that survive 50 years of technology and business model changes.

00:02:59.127 –> 00:03:07.507
ROBONZO: We’re breaking down the session musician business model today, but the principles transfer to any sustainable music career.

00:03:07.507 –> 00:03:15.247
ROBONZO: In Johnny’s new book, Blown It, you can read what it’s like behind the scenes from The Mundane to The Madcap.

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ROBONZO: Blown It, that is, is now a one-man show starring Johnny Thirkell.

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ROBONZO: You can learn about the book, The One Man Show and Johnny’s incredible career at johnnythirkell.com.

00:03:29.347 –> 00:03:33.767
ROBONZO: Now, here is me speaking with Johnny Thirkell.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Did the movie Billy Elliot ever make it to the US?

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Was that a popular movie?

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Well, so that was shot in the village where I grew up.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: And in fact, the pole line where he worked, that’s I worked there when I left school for three years.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: So that’s where it was in the North East.

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ROBONZO: Where did you go to school?

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: I went to a grammar school in the town called Peterley, the next town along.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: And then after that, I went to work for a few years and then went to a college of music in Leeds.

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ROBONZO: Very nice.

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ROBONZO: I’ve heard of Leeds.

00:04:11.327 –> 00:04:15.127
ROBONZO: Having been famous for a couple of big reasons that come to mind from Evo.

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ROBONZO: But initially, I think just from knowing some of the famous concerts that have been played there many, that’s right.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yes, exactly.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Well, The Who, Leeds, that was filmed in the university, in the Students Union of the university that I went to.

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ROBONZO: So, that’s amazing.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: But before my time, before my time, though, I was, he hastens to add.

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ROBONZO: Yeah, I was, I’m sure it was done after I was born, but I would have been a wee lad, as you guys say.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, yes, indeed.

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ROBONZO: Yeah, indeed.

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ROBONZO: And what was it like growing up there where you grew up?

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s pretty grim, really.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s much grimmer now, Rebecca, because, you know, they don’t even have the coal mines anymore.

00:05:01.387 –> 00:05:02.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They’re all gone.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: So these people have got nothing really.

00:05:04.847 –> 00:05:08.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But at least, I guess, when I grew up, there was work and people were working.

00:05:08.747 –> 00:05:14.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But it’s a pretty, you know, it’s a pretty dirty existence, right?

00:05:14.847 –> 00:05:23.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, nobody really would choose to go underground and do a 10-hour shift underground in a filthy, dirty environment.

00:05:23.507 –> 00:05:24.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Right.

00:05:24.387 –> 00:05:25.367
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I had a happy childhood.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: I wouldn’t complain about that at all.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: There’s a good sense of community.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think it’s a lot in the sort of rust belty places or in the US.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’m not sure where the mining industry is, but I think it’s a fairly universal picture, right?

00:05:41.287 –> 00:05:48.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: These communities, they’re hard and people are tough and resilient, but they make good communities, right?

00:05:48.267 –> 00:05:51.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They all kind of make the best of it.

00:05:51.527 –> 00:05:54.107
ROBONZO: Yeah, that sounds about right from what I do understand.

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ROBONZO: I didn’t grow up in a community like that, but that’s, you know.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Where are you from originally then, Rebecca?

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Are you from the States originally?

00:06:00.667 –> 00:06:02.587
ROBONZO: Yeah, Fort Worth, Texas.

00:06:02.587 –> 00:06:07.427
ROBONZO: My father was an undocumented immigrant back in his day.

00:06:07.427 –> 00:06:16.207
ROBONZO: He was born like in 22, which came into my focus when I moved to Mexico and wanted to get dual citizenship and realized he had no birth certificate on record.

00:06:16.207 –> 00:06:17.867
ROBONZO: But so I had to go for that.

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ROBONZO: But so he became a citizen eventually.

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ROBONZO: And my mom was like third or fourth generation Texan born on the border, born near a border in a border town, near Mexico and raised in Texas.

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ROBONZO: But that was back when the border was like extremely fluid.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yes, indeed.

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ROBONZO: Our contrast from today.

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ROBONZO: But yeah, I grew up there and spent most of my life there.

00:06:41.587 –> 00:06:46.667
ROBONZO: I met my wife there and we moved to California together and then ended up in Panama and here eventually.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: Okay, nice.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, it feels like a gentler place.

00:06:51.227 –> 00:06:59.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I know Mexico has its issues, of course, but it feels like a gentler place to me, having been there only a couple of times.

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ROBONZO: Sure.

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ROBONZO: But I mean, especially where I am, but I mean, there are a lot of great places.

00:07:03.287 –> 00:07:10.827
ROBONZO: I imagine if they didn’t have some of the problems that they do have with security and violence, it would be that way just about everywhere.

00:07:10.827 –> 00:07:13.127
ROBONZO: But I guess we can say that about any place.

00:07:13.667 –> 00:07:16.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I guess so.

00:07:17.847 –> 00:07:23.567
ROBONZO: Well, thank you, by the way, you were thanking me, but thank you for taking time out to speak with me.

00:07:23.987 –> 00:07:34.407
ROBONZO: I’m really appreciative, though, because people who listen to the podcast and read my newsletter are, a lot of them early trajectory or some of them not so much, but they’re independent musicians, so they’re always trying to learn.

00:07:34.407 –> 00:07:44.047
ROBONZO: This is a nice opportunity for me to try and extract some useful bits of this and that from your career, which by the way, has been pretty incredible from what I could tell you played.

00:07:44.047 –> 00:07:47.247
ROBONZO: I’m going to set it all up in the introduction I’ll record later.

00:07:47.247 –> 00:07:51.307
ROBONZO: But man, I was telling my wife, you’ve recorded with and toured with just about everybody.

00:07:52.867 –> 00:07:57.007
ROBONZO: The two big names that I think I wrote down here were David Bowie and Paul McCartney.

00:07:57.007 –> 00:08:00.627
ROBONZO: But there’s a ton of other big ones that are on that list too.

00:08:00.667 –> 00:08:06.127
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, look, I’ve been very fortunate, I think.

00:08:06.127 –> 00:08:24.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And yeah, I mean, actually, I really love the tenor of the questions that you sent an email, Robonzo, which, you know, and I think these are, you know, as part of the sort of promo for this book, I’ve done maybe 15 podcasts.

00:08:24.607 –> 00:08:27.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And actually, these are refreshingly nice.

00:08:27.987 –> 00:08:31.887
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, these questions, the angle is different to all of the others.

00:08:31.887 –> 00:08:40.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But they’ve all really, the other has been just the book and this mad stories have been kidnapped by the Japanese mafia and all that sort of stuff.

00:08:42.707 –> 00:08:45.207
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Again.

00:08:45.207 –> 00:08:49.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But yeah, you know, I like the angle of these with this was very interesting.

00:08:49.447 –> 00:08:50.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I’m very, very happy to do it.

00:08:50.767 –> 00:08:51.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Thank you.

00:08:51.227 –> 00:08:51.547
ROBONZO: Well, good.

00:08:51.547 –> 00:08:52.027
ROBONZO: I appreciate it.

00:08:52.027 –> 00:09:04.647
ROBONZO: And I’m going to kind of start backwards, I guess, and ask you if there’s like a particular story that from from your journey that kind of captures what it actually takes to build a career like yours.

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JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think that affability is a huge gil.

00:09:09.847 –> 00:09:28.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, everybody wants to work with people that they that they like, you know, and I think this idea of of, you know, regularity and people using you again and again and again and again, it’s it’s really comes down to to, you know, understanding what people want and then giving it to them.

00:09:28.267 –> 00:09:28.447
ROBONZO: Right.

00:09:30.107 –> 00:09:40.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, sorry, was was your question about some story from like a a tale of Derring Do or are we into discussing the business?

00:09:41.187 –> 00:09:43.367
ROBONZO: No, I like where you were going.

00:09:43.507 –> 00:09:54.107
ROBONZO: I might just add to the question or, you know, are there are there were there things you were actually doing during your career that some other musicians might miss or not think about?

00:09:54.107 –> 00:10:00.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If you’re asking the question, it’s kind of the key to longevity as a career.

00:10:00.227 –> 00:10:04.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think it’s about being easy to be around.

00:10:04.607 –> 00:10:12.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Obviously, there is a primary requisite, which is that obviously you need to be able to do the job.

00:10:12.427 –> 00:10:13.247
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Okay.

00:10:13.247 –> 00:10:15.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But I think there are thousands of people who can do the job.

00:10:15.647 –> 00:10:20.087
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There’s this strain of thought that says, good enough is good enough.

00:10:20.087 –> 00:10:20.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Right?

00:10:20.867 –> 00:10:29.087
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So there are lots of the sort of virtuoso musicians who can do this, and they can do that, and the incredible chops.

00:10:29.087 –> 00:10:34.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But if you’re an asshole, then nobody wants to, you know what I mean?

00:10:34.767 –> 00:10:44.027
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It really is, if you’re good enough to do the gig, and to the standard that’s required, then after that, it’s about other things, right?

00:10:44.027 –> 00:10:46.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s about getting along with people.

00:10:46.987 –> 00:10:54.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Often, I will go to a session, and you’ll see some guys there, like it’s usually the strings, sorry.

00:10:54.687 –> 00:11:05.027
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But, you know, they’ll, like, we will do a take, and then they’ll listen back to it, and the strings get out, the newspaper, and they sit there reading, they’re kind of just actively looking disinterested.

00:11:06.647 –> 00:11:13.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I’ve even seen people writing up their invoice, and I think, well, at least wait until the session’s finished, right?

00:11:13.647 –> 00:11:19.667
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And for me, I, so I would make a point of going into the control room and listening back.

00:11:19.667 –> 00:11:23.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And if I hear something that I’m not happy with, then I would point it out.

00:11:23.567 –> 00:11:27.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that goes down really well with people.

00:11:27.567 –> 00:11:34.127
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But I think, Roberto, I mean, it’s, I don’t do it as a sort of act.

00:11:34.127 –> 00:11:35.327
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I care about these things.

00:11:35.327 –> 00:11:40.167
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If it’s, if it has my name on it, then I want it to be the best it can possibly be.

00:11:40.167 –> 00:11:41.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Certainly my contribution.

00:11:41.227 –> 00:11:43.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I can’t control anybody else’s contribution.

00:11:43.747 –> 00:11:44.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: People recognize that.

00:11:44.987 –> 00:11:46.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I think people really appreciate it.

00:11:46.607 –> 00:11:52.407
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If you’re an artist, all of my perspective is from that of a session musician.

00:11:52.407 –> 00:12:03.167
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But, you know, I go on a session and the artist, whoever it is, doesn’t matter what kind of music it is, doesn’t matter what it may be a jingle or a TV theme or somebody’s album, whatever.

00:12:03.167 –> 00:12:11.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, they’ve put their heart and their soul and their time and their effort and their energy and their money and everything they’ve put into that.

00:12:11.707 –> 00:12:18.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: How demoralizing is it, right, to see a bunch of guys reading the paper in the middle of the, it’s horrendous.

00:12:18.827 –> 00:12:33.327
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I think it really, it’s sort of like, you know, if you’re walking up the street and you see someone with a push jet or stroller, as you guys would call it, it’s like looking in there and saying, geez, that’s an ugly baby.

00:12:34.207 –> 00:12:34.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Right?

00:12:34.847 –> 00:12:36.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You just wouldn’t do that.

00:12:36.527 –> 00:12:39.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It just doesn’t matter whether you like the music.

00:12:39.747 –> 00:12:41.247
JOHNNY THIRKELL: That’s not important, right?

00:12:41.247 –> 00:12:44.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It doesn’t matter whether it’s your kind of music or you’re there.

00:12:46.267 –> 00:12:51.787
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Enhance that music and I think the key is just caring about it, right?

00:12:51.787 –> 00:12:58.327
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Take everything, make everything as serious, take everything as seriously as you possibly can.

00:12:58.327 –> 00:12:59.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And people appreciate that.

00:13:00.007 –> 00:13:02.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They really do appreciate that.

00:13:02.387 –> 00:13:04.547
ROBONZO: Yeah, I can certainly understand that.

00:13:04.547 –> 00:13:08.647
ROBONZO: And I guess I talk about some of those things with my bandmates.

00:13:08.647 –> 00:13:12.847
ROBONZO: Now I’m playing with some younger guys.

00:13:14.367 –> 00:13:16.007
ROBONZO: And I do a lot of writing about all this, too.

00:13:16.007 –> 00:13:19.127
ROBONZO: So I hear it from others and it’s nice to hear.

00:13:19.127 –> 00:13:22.067
ROBONZO: It just goes that way all the way up.

00:13:22.067 –> 00:13:29.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, look, I think as a studio player, right, the keys to success, I think, lie in the mundane, right?

00:13:29.707 –> 00:13:32.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There is a great article that I read some time ago.

00:13:32.227 –> 00:13:34.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It was about actually Mark Spitzer’s Women.

00:13:34.527 –> 00:13:38.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: The article was entitled The Mundanity of Excellence.

00:13:38.347 –> 00:13:49.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I think the key to a career, a successful career, as in any kind of musician, not just a studio musician, is lies in the mundane things, right?

00:13:49.267 –> 00:13:51.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Be on time, okay?

00:13:51.267 –> 00:13:52.927
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Like on time is late.

00:13:52.927 –> 00:14:00.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So always be there, ready to rock, at least 15, 20 minutes before you have to play your first note, okay?

00:14:00.467 –> 00:14:08.207
JOHNNY THIRKELL: When you get there, my job is to find out what the producer or the artist, what is it they want, right?

00:14:08.207 –> 00:14:11.307
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I need to talk to them, I need to listen to them, I need to work at.

00:14:11.927 –> 00:14:17.047
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And then, so that’s my job is to find out what they want and then make sure I give it to them, right?

00:14:17.047 –> 00:14:21.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I’m there until they get what they want.

00:14:22.327 –> 00:14:34.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And yes, just being on time, being reliable, being interested, caring, just being as professional as you can, it sounds pretty dull, but you can have the most incredible chops.

00:14:36.087 –> 00:14:40.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s not about you, it’s about who you’re playing for, it’s about who’s paying the bill.

00:14:40.707 –> 00:14:41.747
ROBONZO: Right.

00:14:41.987 –> 00:14:47.667
ROBONZO: I’m reminded, as you said, on time is late, and I’m familiar with that concept.

00:14:47.667 –> 00:14:56.027
ROBONZO: And it’s kind of a joke that Latin Americans and Mexicans included are, you know, 15 minutes, 20 minutes late is on time.

00:14:56.027 –> 00:14:59.667
ROBONZO: So I have to think about how to reframe that humorously for my friends here.

00:15:01.047 –> 00:15:05.127
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s a very subtle kind of disrespect, I think.

00:15:05.127 –> 00:15:05.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Right?

00:15:06.247 –> 00:15:11.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s like you are making the assumption that your time is more important than somebody else’s time.

00:15:11.347 –> 00:15:12.327
ROBONZO: Sure.

00:15:12.327 –> 00:15:13.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s not a great way to start.

00:15:13.827 –> 00:15:15.407
ROBONZO: Right.

00:15:15.407 –> 00:15:21.327
ROBONZO: Tell me, tell me as I lead into this next question, please feel free to fact check me.

00:15:21.327 –> 00:15:24.567
ROBONZO: But I haven’t read the book yet.

00:15:24.567 –> 00:15:35.147
ROBONZO: But from what I understand, it does talk about going from the colliery band, I hope I pronounced that right, to playing with Buddy Rich from Working Men’s Club to Wembley.

00:15:35.367 –> 00:15:40.767
ROBONZO: And I was thinking, that’s not necessarily the typical conservatory trained session player path.

00:15:40.767 –> 00:15:52.807
ROBONZO: And so I wanted to ask, how did you without like the stereotypical, and I’m doing air quotes, stereotypical credentials, if there’s such a thing, break into elite session work as you did?

00:15:54.107 –> 00:16:10.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Well, I mean, I can, the part of history is, I was working, as I said, in a coal mine, and it took me about 10 minutes to work out that, I’m just not doing this for the rest of my life, I need something different.

00:16:10.427 –> 00:16:13.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And playing the trumpet was about the only thing I was any good at.

00:16:13.727 –> 00:16:18.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I went to night school, and I got some more qualifications.

00:16:18.107 –> 00:16:22.307
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, at regular school, I was the kid at the back of the room who was always mucking about, you know.

00:16:23.547 –> 00:16:26.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so, you know, I didn’t get great results when I left school.

00:16:26.427 –> 00:16:33.207
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I got some more qualifications, and I went to, I managed to get into the music department at Leeds.

00:16:35.367 –> 00:16:43.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And then a couple of months into my second year, I got a break, I mean, I got an incredible break.

00:16:45.567 –> 00:16:51.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I was in a pub with a bunch of friends, and someone introduced me and said, Hey, Johnny, this is my friend Mike.

00:16:51.527 –> 00:16:52.547
JOHNNY THIRKELL: He’s a trumpet player.

00:16:52.667 –> 00:16:55.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, you guys will get along, I’m sure.

00:16:55.747 –> 00:16:59.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I’m chatting to Mike and I said, Okay, well, what are you up to, Mike?

00:16:59.287 –> 00:17:04.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And Mike said, Well, I’m in a band on the QE2, the cruise ship.

00:17:04.287 –> 00:17:10.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And bearing in mind, you know, like a year and a half earlier, I’d been digging coal for a living.

00:17:10.467 –> 00:17:12.867
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I said, Well, that must be amazing.

00:17:12.867 –> 00:17:23.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And he said to me, Well, yeah, I mean, it is, but I’m trying to get, you know, I’ve had enough now, I’m trying to get off, I can’t find any way to replace me.

00:17:23.347 –> 00:17:30.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I took a sharp intake of breath and I said, I’ll do it.

00:17:30.607 –> 00:17:32.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And he said, Really?

00:17:32.067 –> 00:17:33.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, well, absolutely.

00:17:33.987 –> 00:17:36.307
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So he said, When can you start?

00:17:36.307 –> 00:17:38.207
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I said, Well, when would you like me to start?

00:17:38.847 –> 00:17:42.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: He said, well, he’s kind of said jokingly, Well, how about Tuesday?

00:17:42.467 –> 00:17:44.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: This was on a Friday night.

00:17:44.347 –> 00:17:47.887
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I said, Yeah, Tuesday, Tuesday works for me.

00:17:47.887 –> 00:17:48.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Really?

00:17:48.627 –> 00:17:49.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Okay, great.

00:17:49.347 –> 00:17:58.167
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I went, I finished my beer, I went home, packed my bags and drove down to Sam Hampton and never went back to college again.

00:17:59.527 –> 00:18:02.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So yeah, and that took me, so I did a little bit of time on the QE2.

00:18:02.707 –> 00:18:18.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I was able to study with a famous teacher in New York, trumpet teacher in New York, called Carmine Caruso, and yeah, after about 14 months, I think, on the QE2, I got off the ship and I just moved to London.

00:18:18.147 –> 00:18:25.867
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think there’s something about youth, I think I was just too stupid to be scared, to be naive, to be scared.

00:18:25.907 –> 00:18:33.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I just went there and yeah, you just hang out and you know the score about it, right?

00:18:33.987 –> 00:18:39.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You, there’s the kind of fine line between being pushy and just being friendly.

00:18:39.427 –> 00:18:41.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And, you know, that’s a line you have to tread.

00:18:41.427 –> 00:18:45.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But I just went to every gig I could possibly go to.

00:18:45.527 –> 00:18:56.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I chatted to the musician, to the guys in the band afterwards and in the break and, and just, you know, you know, I’m fairly affable character, you know, I can sort of read the room.

00:18:56.107 –> 00:19:02.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And yeah, gradually you build up kind of a network of, of, of, of friends.

00:19:02.287 –> 00:19:06.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Ultimately, one of those guys needs a, needs a sub.

00:19:06.287 –> 00:19:16.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And, you know, they’ll, they’ll, they’ll always be a gig where nobody’s available and they gradually, they get down, far enough down the list to come across your name.

00:19:16.647 –> 00:19:16.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Right.

00:19:16.907 –> 00:19:18.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And you go there and you do a good job.

00:19:18.467 –> 00:19:20.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so, yeah, great.

00:19:20.347 –> 00:19:24.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Everybody needs a good sub, you know, everybody needs somebody they can trust.

00:19:24.727 –> 00:19:29.367
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Then I guess it’s just, you kind of keep on doing that and build an upward spiral, really.

00:19:31.427 –> 00:19:39.327
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, yeah, it started off doing just kind of probably pub gigs or weddings, bar mitzvahs, that kind of stuff.

00:19:39.327 –> 00:19:46.047
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And you sort of slowly build a reputation, again, for just, for being good, for being reliable.

00:19:46.047 –> 00:19:51.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Look, I would never ever claim to be the greatest trumpet player in the world.

00:19:51.907 –> 00:19:57.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But I’ve managed to make a 45-year career, pretty much the pointy end, okay?

00:19:57.947 –> 00:20:03.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, as you mentioned earlier, I’ve got a fairly healthy CV.

00:20:05.267 –> 00:20:10.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But I think a lot of that is down to the fact that I treat it in a sort of professional way.

00:20:10.707 –> 00:20:15.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, it’s not a hobby, it’s my job.

00:20:15.907 –> 00:20:19.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And yeah, you just treat it properly.

00:20:19.447 –> 00:20:24.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Just everything, everything you do has to be the best that you can possibly do.

00:20:24.067 –> 00:20:25.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And if it’s got my name on it.

00:20:25.767 –> 00:20:35.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I became renowned, Roberta, for, and it doesn’t matter how big, and I’ve done this with, with, you know, 40 piece orchestras and four piece horn sections.

00:20:35.527 –> 00:20:40.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If I make a mistake, I will sabotage the take, I will.

00:20:40.987 –> 00:20:42.807
ROBONZO: That’s to do it over.

00:20:42.807 –> 00:20:44.027
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, yeah.

00:20:44.087 –> 00:20:50.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Because it’s got, if it has my name on there, I don’t want it out there unless it is the best I can possibly do.

00:20:50.067 –> 00:20:54.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And yeah, I have done it with a 40 piece orchestra too.

00:20:54.247 –> 00:20:54.827
ROBONZO: I love it.

00:20:54.867 –> 00:20:57.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Because those, those things are better, right?

00:20:57.907 –> 00:21:04.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, some of my first number one record, I’ve had 38 number one albums.

00:21:04.767 –> 00:21:06.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: My first one was in 1981.

00:21:09.047 –> 00:21:12.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Imagine if I’m making records then and there’s those mistakes on them.

00:21:13.087 –> 00:21:15.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ve had 81, 91 thousand albums.

00:21:15.387 –> 00:21:18.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ve had 45 years to listen to that.

00:21:18.447 –> 00:21:19.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Just that I want it, right?

00:21:19.967 –> 00:21:26.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If it’s got my name on it, then I want it to be the best I could possibly do.

00:21:26.107 –> 00:21:26.727
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:21:26.727 –> 00:21:36.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, I think that, so that’s sort of briefly the journey from the, from the Colliery’s tattoo to working in London.

00:21:36.607 –> 00:21:46.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, thereafter, it’s just about, yeah, knowing what your client wants and giving, it sounds very sort of corporate, but I guess that’s the way you have to look at it, right?

00:21:46.907 –> 00:21:51.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: My job is to give, whoever’s paying my wages, give them what they want.

00:21:51.387 –> 00:21:51.687
ROBONZO: Sure.

00:21:51.687 –> 00:21:54.507
ROBONZO: Well, I think in a way, it’s demystifying it a little bit.

00:21:54.507 –> 00:22:06.447
ROBONZO: People may think there’s something special beyond what we’re talking about so far anyway, and it really is a lot of basic stories you alluded to earlier, the mundane.

00:22:06.487 –> 00:22:07.547
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, sure.

00:22:07.547 –> 00:22:15.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Look, I know, and obviously, I wouldn’t name names, but I know lots of guys, phenomenal players, absolutely phenomenal.

00:22:15.767 –> 00:22:20.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, I couldn’t, I can’t even, if I lived to be a thousand, I’d never play like that.

00:22:20.627 –> 00:22:26.307
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But for them, okay, they turn up to work and it’s about them, right?

00:22:26.307 –> 00:22:31.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, their interest is showing people how great they are.

00:22:31.467 –> 00:22:33.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And nobody cares.

00:22:33.187 –> 00:22:33.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Nobody cares.

00:22:34.827 –> 00:22:38.167
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s just, I just want you to do the job.

00:22:38.647 –> 00:22:41.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I think, you know, that’s something which gets missed.

00:22:41.627 –> 00:22:47.207
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Missed a lot, like I say, there is that school of thought that says good enough is good enough.

00:22:47.207 –> 00:22:48.467
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah.

00:22:48.467 –> 00:22:58.887
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Beyond that, it’s about being, you know, I mean, so a lot of the touring, in fact, the majority of the touring I’ve done with bands has come out of playing with them in the studio.

00:22:58.887 –> 00:23:01.047
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I’d be, you know, I’d have been booked for a session.

00:23:01.487 –> 00:23:09.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’d do the session, get along with the guys, and when they come to do a tour and they want to take a horn section, oh, who’s the little northern guy?

00:23:09.967 –> 00:23:11.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: He was quite fun, you know.

00:23:11.827 –> 00:23:12.987
ROBONZO: Yeah, great.

00:23:12.987 –> 00:23:16.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So they don’t think, okay, who was the best tromba player out of them?

00:23:17.067 –> 00:23:18.787
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Do you know what I mean?

00:23:18.787 –> 00:23:20.247
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ll give you a case in point.

00:23:20.247 –> 00:23:25.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I have played and still play with a group called Swing Out Sister.

00:23:25.267 –> 00:23:30.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So in 85, I think it was, we had a number one record with a song called Break Out.

00:23:33.447 –> 00:23:44.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And originally that tune Break Out actually only has two trumpets, but the rest of the album was a fairly big band, a friend of Michael Richard Niles lives in California.

00:23:44.707 –> 00:23:47.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: He had done the Horn Arrangements and there were four trumpets.

00:23:47.987 –> 00:23:54.027
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I was probably the least talented of the four, if I’m honest with you.

00:23:54.027 –> 00:23:56.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But it’s me that asked to do the tour.

00:23:56.807 –> 00:23:59.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I think it’s because there are no more jokes than the others.

00:24:02.467 –> 00:24:07.007
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think when you genuinely care about something, people can see that.

00:24:07.047 –> 00:24:11.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And those are the people that you want on the road.

00:24:11.267 –> 00:24:12.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Guys, you know you’re going to get along with.

00:24:13.727 –> 00:24:18.547
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If you’re going to live on a bus for three months with people, nobody wants an asshole.

00:24:19.767 –> 00:24:21.967
ROBONZO: Right, I figured it’s a combination of that.

00:24:22.547 –> 00:24:27.027
ROBONZO: And they feel like you can hack the whole tour existence.

00:24:27.267 –> 00:24:30.807
ROBONZO: And you obviously over the years having built a resume, they know, okay, well, he can do that part.

00:24:30.807 –> 00:24:31.307
ROBONZO: That’s for sure.

00:24:31.307 –> 00:24:33.667
ROBONZO: And he seems like a really nice guy.

00:24:33.667 –> 00:24:34.447
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:24:34.447 –> 00:24:34.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah.

00:24:34.807 –> 00:24:45.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I think I think that’s the that’s how a moderately talented trumpet player such as myself has been able to sustain a career at the pointy end for 45 years.

00:24:45.827 –> 00:24:48.907
ROBONZO: Well, I’ve heard some of your playing and you sound quite good to me.

00:24:50.787 –> 00:24:53.747
ROBONZO: So yeah, I look forward to listening to some more, too.

00:24:55.087 –> 00:25:08.667
ROBONZO: So I hope I’m not drilling on the same theme here, but sort of thinking about client acquisitions, you’ve worked with George Michael, David Bowie, Paul McCartney, The Who.

00:25:08.667 –> 00:25:12.447
ROBONZO: That doesn’t seem like random luck.

00:25:12.807 –> 00:25:17.967
ROBONZO: How does a session musician actually get in the room with artists at that level?

00:25:17.967 –> 00:25:25.927
ROBONZO: Walk me through if there’s a system or your method, or how you reflect on building those relationships.

00:25:25.927 –> 00:25:32.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, I guess there are a few ways.

00:25:32.067 –> 00:25:35.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Obviously, I’m speaking quite UK-centric here.

00:25:35.727 –> 00:25:43.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But we have, I guess, what we would call a fixer, I guess, contractor, maybe it might be the term in the US.

00:25:43.127 –> 00:25:52.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so they, sometimes an artist or a record company, well, they will contact a contractor and say, I need two trumpets, two saxes, blah, blah, whatever.

00:25:52.947 –> 00:25:58.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Okay, that’s so, so you need to build a relationship with the contractor.

00:25:58.507 –> 00:26:09.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Again, I would do that by being, by being the guy who the contractor rings you up, tells you the time and the place, and then they can forget all about it.

00:26:09.107 –> 00:26:15.367
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And they’re completely comfortable that you’re going to be there on time, ready to go and do a good job.

00:26:15.367 –> 00:26:17.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So that’s one strand.

00:26:18.627 –> 00:26:28.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I guess another is few reputation.

00:26:28.847 –> 00:26:32.027
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I’ll give you an example.

00:26:32.207 –> 00:26:35.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I have a long history with the band Jumeirah Quay.

00:26:35.687 –> 00:26:40.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ve played with Jumeirah Quay since the very beginning, on and off since 1992.

00:26:42.267 –> 00:26:45.407
JOHNNY THIRKELL: In 1993, we released Emergency on Planet Earth.

00:26:45.407 –> 00:26:48.307
JOHNNY THIRKELL: That’s the first album.

00:26:48.307 –> 00:26:52.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that came out of having played on that tune Breakout by Swing That Sister.

00:26:52.607 –> 00:26:57.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It was a J of Jumeirah Quay, a big fan of that record.

00:26:57.707 –> 00:27:05.887
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And when he wanted horns on the album, he said to the label, okay, see this tune here, Swing That Breakout?

00:27:06.027 –> 00:27:07.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I want the guy who did that.

00:27:09.407 –> 00:27:19.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Then that’s another way, you know, you build up sort of a portfolio and these things often lead on to something else.

00:27:19.947 –> 00:27:24.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And the other thing is that I formed with a good friend of mine, a sax player called Gary Barnacle.

00:27:24.687 –> 00:27:30.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: We formed, and Peter Toms was a trombone player, we formed like a horn, like a regular horn section.

00:27:30.727 –> 00:27:46.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s very common these days, you know, my good friend Jerry Hay has the Hay horns and, you know, there’s the Triple H, there’s a whole bunch of them now, but then, back then, sort of mid 80s, this wasn’t a thing.

00:27:46.847 –> 00:28:00.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so, you know, our selling point was, well, the three of us worked together all the time, so we had this kind of intuition and we’re all, you know, we’re much tighter than the other guys simply because we work together so much.

00:28:01.927 –> 00:28:17.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, I guess those are three fundamental methodologies, but again, Robetta, it all boils down to, in all of these scenarios, it boils down to finding out what the client, you know, what the guy wants, and then how do we give it to him?

00:28:17.507 –> 00:28:26.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, you turn up on time, you’re ready to go, and vocabularly, that’s another thing, right?

00:28:27.687 –> 00:28:49.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, I think, but the only advantage I have of a young, the amazing, there are some incredible young trumpet players, and look, I’m sort of slowly retiring, but the only advantage I think I have of those young guys is that I understand different genres of music that they never grew up with.

00:28:49.727 –> 00:29:06.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, if I go to a studio, for example, and someone says to me, I want this to sound like the J.B.s, or the Staxhorns or something, I know exactly, I know how to make that sound, I know how to organize a section and make it sound like that.

00:29:06.387 –> 00:29:16.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, that’s another really useful thing, is having, if you want to be a studio player or not even necessarily a studio player, just a gigging player, right?

00:29:16.707 –> 00:29:24.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, it’s incumbent upon you to understand why certain genres of music sound like they do.

00:29:24.387 –> 00:29:25.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know what I mean?

00:29:25.227 –> 00:29:35.887
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, if I go to a session and they say, I want it to sound like the J.B.’s, James Brown’s section, well, then I know the alto goes on the top and then the trumpet underneath rather than the other way around.

00:29:36.967 –> 00:29:39.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Because that’s that sort of sound.

00:29:39.107 –> 00:29:39.387
ROBONZO: Sure.

00:29:39.487 –> 00:29:46.787
ROBONZO: So, I guess it’s worth studying those, for the kids out there, you know, it’s worth studying the old genres and finding guys who know them really well to learn from.

00:29:46.787 –> 00:29:47.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: 100%, yes.

00:29:47.787 –> 00:29:50.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And study them and try and understand it.

00:29:50.607 –> 00:29:52.787
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, try and, okay, why does it sound like that?

00:29:52.787 –> 00:29:54.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: What is it they are playing?

00:29:54.267 –> 00:30:03.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: What is this sort of, I mean, if you’re a guitarist, for example, you know, what kind of sounds is he using, right?

00:30:03.427 –> 00:30:07.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: What sort of technique is he using to understand all of those things?

00:30:07.267 –> 00:30:17.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So when you go, like even if you go on a gig like with a covers band, okay, then you’re playing a whole range, I would imagine, you’re playing a whole range of different styles of music.

00:30:17.807 –> 00:30:27.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And if you, you’re going to, you are going to, you’re going to shine through so much more if you understand how to make those sounds, right?

00:30:27.647 –> 00:30:33.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Whatever genre it is, if you understand that, then, then you become more valuable.

00:30:33.567 –> 00:30:35.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You’re just making yourself more valuable, right?

00:30:35.707 –> 00:30:39.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You’re pushing yourself to the top of the list.

00:30:39.767 –> 00:30:42.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: When it comes to finding a guitarist or a drummer.

00:30:42.387 –> 00:30:53.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, you know, talking to you about, you know, for example, the power of power, that kind of 70s, that really sort of tight drum sound.

00:30:53.147 –> 00:31:00.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If you get to play one of those sort of tunes, you need to know, I’m not afraid, particularly with the drum technique.

00:31:00.847 –> 00:31:02.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But you know what I mean?

00:31:02.607 –> 00:31:06.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Understanding the sort of things that they would play, the sort of fills that they would play.

00:31:06.907 –> 00:31:07.207
ROBONZO: Totally.

00:31:07.207 –> 00:31:12.127
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, the sort of, the kind of, it’s not only just the rhythms, right, but the sound of this.

00:31:12.127 –> 00:31:15.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: These are all things which just make you more and more valuable, right?

00:31:15.727 –> 00:31:17.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: More desirable.

00:31:17.107 –> 00:31:17.667
ROBONZO: Totally.

00:31:17.667 –> 00:31:19.187
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah, that’s great advice.

00:31:19.187 –> 00:31:27.747
ROBONZO: I have to go back to one of the first things you mentioned, because it’s a little funny, and probably you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about, and maybe even applies to one of your notorious stories.

00:31:27.747 –> 00:31:34.027
ROBONZO: But Fixer, what came to mind for me was somebody who makes like a literal dead body or some other ugly situation just go away.

00:31:34.027 –> 00:31:41.207
ROBONZO: So they call this Fixer, and he’s like an independent contractor, or she who comes in quickly, gets out quickly.

00:31:41.207 –> 00:31:41.907
ROBONZO: Nobody knows.

00:31:42.667 –> 00:31:46.787
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yes, so we all need where we could all do with somebody like that.

00:31:48.347 –> 00:31:53.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, so I guess that’s the joy of being an artist.

00:31:53.707 –> 00:31:56.327
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Well, you’ve talked about making things go away.

00:31:56.327 –> 00:32:00.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There’s a story in my book about being kidnapped by the Japanese mafia.

00:32:02.467 –> 00:32:06.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that was the very first American tour to Japan.

00:32:06.567 –> 00:32:09.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I shan’t drag the story out.

00:32:09.287 –> 00:32:11.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But effectively, we were stopped.

00:32:11.987 –> 00:32:15.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, we’d been drinking all the way from London to Japan.

00:32:17.207 –> 00:32:22.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And the customs guys’ eyes lit up when we all poured ourselves off the aeroplane.

00:32:24.347 –> 00:32:28.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And we were taken into a back room and out come the rubber gloves.

00:32:29.127 –> 00:32:31.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And, you know, we’re all getting a bit nervous.

00:32:33.467 –> 00:32:34.927
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that’s a sudden…

00:32:34.927 –> 00:32:36.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There was…

00:32:38.047 –> 00:32:40.047
JOHNNY THIRKELL: All of a sudden, the whole thing evaporated.

00:32:40.047 –> 00:32:44.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And we were allowed to go without being searched or anything like that.

00:32:44.507 –> 00:32:52.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And it turns out that, yeah, there were some interested parties who didn’t really want the band to be thrown in jail or deported from Japan.

00:32:54.747 –> 00:32:58.007
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so, yeah, that kind of disappeared.

00:32:58.127 –> 00:33:06.787
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And the following morning, I found myself being bundled into the back of a car and taken hostage until such time as the whole thing was sorted out.

00:33:06.847 –> 00:33:08.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Oh, gosh.

00:33:09.187 –> 00:33:11.207
ROBONZO: Fixers day.

00:33:11.207 –> 00:33:12.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, somebody fixed it.

00:33:12.487 –> 00:33:17.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, I mean, I suspect it was the mafia or something, but it doesn’t really matter.

00:33:17.707 –> 00:33:18.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They fixed it.

00:33:18.387 –> 00:33:19.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: The problem went away.

00:33:19.767 –> 00:33:21.047
ROBONZO: Wow, that’s crazy.

00:33:22.107 –> 00:33:27.147
ROBONZO: Let’s talk about money if we can since that’s part of what makes a career sustainable.

00:33:28.687 –> 00:33:40.927
ROBONZO: Are there things that you can share that might be helpful to independents who are looking to get into session work in the future about how pricing works in the session world?

00:33:40.927 –> 00:33:46.507
ROBONZO: And I know I realize that that has probably changed a lot, varied a lot over the years that you’ve been doing it.

00:33:46.507 –> 00:33:49.507
ROBONZO: But I’m like, how do you structure your rates?

00:33:49.607 –> 00:33:53.267
ROBONZO: Or how has that changed over the years?

00:33:53.267 –> 00:33:59.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, well, I guess the official way in the UK, I believe it’s quite similar in the US.

00:33:59.947 –> 00:34:05.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You have the local, these kind of local unions there.

00:34:05.967 –> 00:34:07.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There is a rate.

00:34:07.727 –> 00:34:12.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So there is kind of a minimum rate for studio work here in the UK.

00:34:13.967 –> 00:34:22.127
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And like lots of things, Roberto, the minimum rate has just become the rate for most people.

00:34:22.627 –> 00:34:24.167
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And it’s quite complex.

00:34:24.167 –> 00:34:26.087
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So there’s a basic session fee.

00:34:26.087 –> 00:34:32.207
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And then if you overdub, if you do one overdub, it’s 125% of the original fee.

00:34:32.207 –> 00:34:33.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And the second overdub is 140%.

00:34:34.847 –> 00:34:38.027
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And then there’s Portrait and then there’s this and there’s that.

00:34:38.027 –> 00:34:44.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And basically, it’s quite a convoluted and complex system, which I just don’t like.

00:34:46.287 –> 00:34:50.107
ROBONZO: Yeah, and is that some players supposed to keep up with all that?

00:34:50.107 –> 00:34:50.787
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, they are.

00:34:50.787 –> 00:34:52.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They’re supposed to work it out.

00:34:52.147 –> 00:34:57.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: At the end of the session, they say, well, okay, I did three overdubs and I did this and then there’s that.

00:34:57.747 –> 00:35:00.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And we went over time, 10 minutes and blah, blah, blah.

00:35:00.727 –> 00:35:03.367
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Now, first of all, I hate the feel of that, don’t you?

00:35:03.367 –> 00:35:06.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It feels just far too transactional for me.

00:35:06.767 –> 00:35:07.327
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Do you know what I mean?

00:35:07.327 –> 00:35:12.787
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I feel like I’m a plumber measuring up a job.

00:35:13.927 –> 00:35:16.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I don’t like the sort of transactional nature of that.

00:35:17.147 –> 00:35:28.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And the second thing is that the record company or the producer or the artist, whoever’s paying for it, they have no idea how much it’s going to cost them, right?

00:35:28.507 –> 00:35:30.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Because it depends on what you do on the day.

00:35:30.587 –> 00:35:32.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So that is a variable that they don’t like.

00:35:34.407 –> 00:35:43.667
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But what often happens, Roberta, is that people start, money starts to make musical decisions.

00:35:43.667 –> 00:35:46.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I think that’s absolutely a bad thing.

00:35:46.627 –> 00:35:59.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So for example, somebody may say to you, oh, I really like another Harmony on that horn part there, but I’m tapped out, you know, it’s, I mean, I can’t afford another 140%, right?

00:35:59.427 –> 00:36:04.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And you find yourself in a position where you’re making musical decisions based on money.

00:36:04.727 –> 00:36:06.547
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I hate that, right?

00:36:06.887 –> 00:36:19.127
JOHNNY THIRKELL: The purpose of all of us, and I know it’s how I feed my kids and send them to school and so on, but nevertheless, I think the music always has to be the most important part, always, always, always.

00:36:19.127 –> 00:36:27.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I, my methodology is, this is what I charge per track, and I will do as many overdubs as you like for that.

00:36:27.547 –> 00:36:29.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I will do whatever.

00:36:29.267 –> 00:36:32.007
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ll be there until you’re happy with what you’ve got.

00:36:32.007 –> 00:36:36.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And if I’m good, then I’ll be out of there quite quickly, right?

00:36:36.387 –> 00:36:43.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Or if I’m, but if I’m not getting what it is you want, and, you know, then, you know, I might be in there for 10 hours.

00:36:43.147 –> 00:36:44.407
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It doesn’t really matter.

00:36:44.407 –> 00:36:49.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But for me, what that does is it gives the artist some clarity, right?

00:36:49.707 –> 00:36:51.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They know what it’s going to cost them.

00:36:51.967 –> 00:36:59.407
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And, but the other thing, the most important thing is you don’t then start making musical decisions based upon money.

00:36:59.407 –> 00:37:04.307
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’d like another harmony in that section, but I can’t afford it.

00:37:04.807 –> 00:37:06.167
JOHNNY THIRKELL: That’s bad for me too, right?

00:37:06.167 –> 00:37:14.927
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Because the bigger the sound, the fatter the sound, the better I’m going to sound, and the more people who will hear that record and say he’s good, let’s get him.

00:37:14.927 –> 00:37:15.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Does that make sense?

00:37:15.807 –> 00:37:16.607
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah, totally.

00:37:16.607 –> 00:37:19.347
ROBONZO: And I, I love that approach.

00:37:19.347 –> 00:37:26.767
ROBONZO: It’s something I’ve always tried to do in any type of work that I do, would be at music or stuff I’ve done in tech and marketing.

00:37:26.767 –> 00:37:31.727
ROBONZO: But yeah, they’re just like, yeah, here’s the rate for the project kind of thing.

00:37:31.727 –> 00:37:33.387
ROBONZO: And it’s just easier.

00:37:33.387 –> 00:37:44.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think at all times you have to make, doesn’t matter what it is, whether it’s a gig or a wedding or anything, doesn’t matter what it is, the music has to be the most important thing.

00:37:44.447 –> 00:37:46.327
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It just has to be.

00:37:46.327 –> 00:37:49.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: That’s how you’re going to build a reputation if you approach it that way.

00:37:51.407 –> 00:37:53.007
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, you may as well work in a factory, right?

00:37:53.147 –> 00:38:01.307
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If you play music, I know we’ve got to eat, we’ve got to feed our kids, and I’m not suggesting people undersell themselves because that’s another important thing.

00:38:01.307 –> 00:38:04.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s important to know your worth and stick with it.

00:38:06.007 –> 00:38:13.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But the most important thing for all times is making it sound as good as it can possibly sound.

00:38:14.227 –> 00:38:17.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: That’s how you’ll build a reputation, and that’s how people will keep on coming back.

00:38:19.687 –> 00:38:20.927
ROBONZO: Right.

00:38:20.927 –> 00:38:29.387
ROBONZO: I was going to ask you about, you know, like getting the first call over and over, but I feel like you’ve kind of answered that.

00:38:30.247 –> 00:38:33.847
ROBONZO: And then, you know, we kind of…

00:38:33.847 –> 00:38:34.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s perseverance.

00:38:34.827 –> 00:38:35.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Just be around.

00:38:35.707 –> 00:38:37.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Don’t be, you know, don’t…

00:38:37.567 –> 00:38:41.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There’s a fine line between being pushy, okay, and being friendly.

00:38:41.987 –> 00:38:45.367
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And just be a good guy to be around, and your chance will come.

00:38:45.547 –> 00:38:50.887
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, they say that that luck is where opportunity meets preparation, right?

00:38:50.887 –> 00:38:51.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that’s it.

00:38:51.587 –> 00:38:53.127
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Just be ready.

00:38:53.127 –> 00:39:02.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And if you’re around long enough and you put yourself around enough and you’re not pushy, but you’re a good guy to be around, sooner or later, your opportunity will come.

00:39:02.747 –> 00:39:06.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And you just need to grab it with both hands and be bloody good.

00:39:07.687 –> 00:39:10.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And the better you are, the more those opportunities will keep on coming.

00:39:10.627 –> 00:39:11.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And then you just…

00:39:11.387 –> 00:39:12.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s kind of…

00:39:12.147 –> 00:39:13.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You just build an upward…

00:39:13.607 –> 00:39:14.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You climb the ladder.

00:39:15.227 –> 00:39:16.267
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:39:16.267 –> 00:39:17.107
ROBONZO: Would you…

00:39:17.107 –> 00:39:23.507
ROBONZO: Is it fair to say that, you know, asking is a great…

00:39:24.527 –> 00:39:33.427
ROBONZO: of great benefit, like, for instance, asking for the work, asking for the opportunity and in concert with those other things that you just mentioned?

00:39:33.427 –> 00:39:35.127
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, I guess it’s a tricky one.

00:39:35.127 –> 00:39:36.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think you’ve got to be very careful, right?

00:39:36.607 –> 00:39:37.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You have to be very careful.

00:39:41.307 –> 00:39:49.307
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think a smoother strategy, I think, is to get to know these guys.

00:39:49.307 –> 00:39:53.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, people love to talk about music and people love to talk about their playing.

00:39:53.067 –> 00:39:55.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: People love to talk about themselves, right?

00:39:55.507 –> 00:40:04.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So if you meet some guys in a band, then you talk to them and say, hey, I really love what you did there on, you know, in the chorus of that thing.

00:40:04.147 –> 00:40:05.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: How did you do that?

00:40:05.107 –> 00:40:05.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, what was it?

00:40:05.947 –> 00:40:06.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Right?

00:40:06.847 –> 00:40:11.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that’s how you kind of build a relationship with people, by just being interested in.

00:40:11.387 –> 00:40:17.887
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think we’ve all had people, strangers bowl up to us and say, I’m, I play the trumpet, I’m really good.

00:40:17.887 –> 00:40:19.787
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Will you give me a gig?

00:40:19.787 –> 00:40:22.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, that’s not going to work, right?

00:40:22.427 –> 00:40:25.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But I think, you know, you need to build a level of trust.

00:40:25.707 –> 00:40:30.867
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And often a good way to do that is interest, you know?

00:40:30.867 –> 00:40:37.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Say, you know, if you like what a guy does, and you think you can do it, then I guess it’s always a good thing to say, I really love that.

00:40:37.947 –> 00:40:39.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: How did you do that?

00:40:39.567 –> 00:40:42.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: People will want to hear that then, I think.

00:40:42.147 –> 00:40:42.627
ROBONZO: I like that.

00:40:42.627 –> 00:40:44.347
ROBONZO: It’s a nice way to articulate.

00:40:44.347 –> 00:40:47.507
ROBONZO: Sometimes I think maybe I haven’t always had the words for that.

00:40:47.507 –> 00:40:52.367
ROBONZO: And it’s very simple and yet elegant.

00:40:52.847 –> 00:40:54.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It doesn’t feel pushy, you know?

00:40:54.387 –> 00:40:54.907
ROBONZO: Yeah, yeah.

00:40:54.907 –> 00:41:04.287
ROBONZO: I mean, I very recently, in fact, it’s just been a little over a week that I played with a drummer I’ve had my eye on since the first time I saw him in town about two years ago.

00:41:04.547 –> 00:41:07.427
ROBONZO: And to my pleasant surprise, he was delighted.

00:41:07.427 –> 00:41:09.067
ROBONZO: He’s like really interested in coming back.

00:41:10.227 –> 00:41:18.327
ROBONZO: But when I think back to that first encounter with him, I mean, we talked and stuff, and I just told him I really liked his playing.

00:41:18.327 –> 00:41:23.667
ROBONZO: But I think it would have been a nice ad to just like, how did you do that thing?

00:41:23.667 –> 00:41:25.827
ROBONZO: Or like to just take note of something very specific.

00:41:25.827 –> 00:41:28.727
ROBONZO: I think that probably makes the conversation more fun for them.

00:41:29.147 –> 00:41:30.247
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, and people love it.

00:41:30.347 –> 00:41:34.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You’re kind of complementing the guy at the same time as being interested in what he’s doing.

00:41:34.347 –> 00:41:34.967
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:41:34.967 –> 00:41:36.267
ROBONZO: Totally.

00:41:36.267 –> 00:41:42.707
ROBONZO: So decades in the business means you survived a lot of change.

00:41:42.867 –> 00:41:48.287
ROBONZO: I dare say massive industry changes from in tech, business models, music trends.

00:41:48.287 –> 00:41:54.187
ROBONZO: How do you think about adapting versus sticking with your strengths that you know well?

00:41:55.287 –> 00:42:01.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Well, I mean, I think, you know, if you ask me to ask me what I was, I would say I’m a studio player.

00:42:01.767 –> 00:42:05.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, I’ve done lots of touring and all kinds of other stuff.

00:42:05.387 –> 00:42:09.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But to all intents and purposes, I think of myself as a studio player.

00:42:09.147 –> 00:42:17.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s all I ever wanted to do from the very beginning, from the very early shoots of me deciding I wanted to do this for a living.

00:42:17.487 –> 00:42:18.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I wanted to be a studio player.

00:42:18.587 –> 00:42:19.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I love the challenge.

00:42:19.747 –> 00:42:24.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I love the fact that every day, morning and afternoon sometimes are different.

00:42:25.267 –> 00:42:29.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But, sadly, I don’t think it’s possible anymore, Rometa, to be…

00:42:29.627 –> 00:42:32.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, I made a career just of being a studio player.

00:42:32.567 –> 00:42:35.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I don’t think it’s possible anymore.

00:42:35.347 –> 00:42:37.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There’s just not enough studio work around.

00:42:37.627 –> 00:42:42.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, the lack of, you know, the whole…

00:42:42.187 –> 00:42:45.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, I hate to pin everything on streaming, but it’s difficult not to.

00:42:45.987 –> 00:42:56.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, the returns are so diminished that particularly of horn players, right, that a lot of people, they say, well, I’d love to have a horn section, but I just can’t afford it.

00:42:56.707 –> 00:43:00.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so I think it’s not possible to be solely…

00:43:00.687 –> 00:43:05.047
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There’s a handful of people who can probably, but it doesn’t sustain lots of people.

00:43:05.047 –> 00:43:07.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You have to do other stuff too.

00:43:09.107 –> 00:43:12.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I think in that respect, it has changed.

00:43:12.267 –> 00:43:17.247
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But, you know, I’ve always believed that with change comes opportunity.

00:43:18.787 –> 00:43:33.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I think, and if I look back, for example, to the 80s, when the Linn drum came in, the drum machine came in, there were two types of drummer here in London.

00:43:33.347 –> 00:43:40.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There were those who sat around moaning about the fact that it was taking their work away, and there were those who went out and bought one.

00:43:40.447 –> 00:43:44.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, who better to program a drum machine than a drummer, right?

00:43:44.767 –> 00:43:46.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so I think change is inevitable.

00:43:47.067 –> 00:43:54.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So you just, you need to be, I think, aware of what’s going on and to try and stay ahead of the curve, right?

00:43:54.287 –> 00:43:57.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Okay, where is this all heading?

00:43:57.287 –> 00:43:59.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And how do I make sure that I’m on the train?

00:43:59.727 –> 00:44:12.167
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, as well as being a player, I have a number of businesses, I run some residential music courses, and I also have a company, we own master rights, like 20,000 master rights or something like that.

00:44:12.727 –> 00:44:24.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I’ve watched those revenues over the last 10 years, since the advent of Spotify and Deezer and those kind of streaming services, we’ve seen our revenues go down by 90%, 90%.

00:44:24.807 –> 00:44:27.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: We’re making 10% now.

00:44:27.287 –> 00:44:29.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So the writing was all for that.

00:44:29.707 –> 00:44:32.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So we got into sync licensing.

00:44:32.527 –> 00:44:41.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, right, you’ve got to keep, I think, you need to be aware of what’s going on and just try and keep ahead of the curve.

00:44:41.207 –> 00:44:50.247
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So we got into sync licensing and we’ve been able to ameliorate some of that loss by these licensing deals.

00:44:50.247 –> 00:44:53.307
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Similarly with AI, of course, that’s the big challenge now.

00:44:54.827 –> 00:45:02.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So we’ve all got to sit down and think, okay, well, what do I think that AI can’t do?

00:45:02.387 –> 00:45:15.207
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I can’t do as well as a human being and then get on that train and focus on that because the progress of change is so rapid now, isn’t it?

00:45:16.547 –> 00:45:18.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There’s no time for sitting around on the laurels, right?

00:45:19.247 –> 00:45:21.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You’ve got to think, okay, where is this going?

00:45:21.067 –> 00:45:22.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: How do I get in there?

00:45:23.367 –> 00:45:27.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: How do I insert myself into that?

00:45:27.647 –> 00:45:31.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: That’s a question I’m afraid I’m not sure I know the answer to.

00:45:31.527 –> 00:45:31.807
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:45:31.847 –> 00:45:32.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I guess.

00:45:32.847 –> 00:45:34.367
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Moving past.

00:45:35.087 –> 00:45:35.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah.

00:45:35.447 –> 00:45:42.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But I think the answer has to be live music, maybe.

00:45:43.387 –> 00:45:51.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Roberto, when I first moved down to London, I arrived in London green as wet behind the ears.

00:45:53.347 –> 00:45:59.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: All of the old pros then, they would say, oh, jeez, I’m glad I’m not you.

00:45:59.907 –> 00:46:01.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’m glad I’m not coming into the industry now.

00:46:01.707 –> 00:46:02.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s finished.

00:46:02.807 –> 00:46:04.167
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, it’s over.

00:46:04.167 –> 00:46:04.927
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Okay.

00:46:04.927 –> 00:46:09.927
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They were saying that because they weren’t doing 15 sessions a week, you know what I mean?

00:46:09.927 –> 00:46:12.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Anymore like they used to do.

00:46:12.107 –> 00:46:13.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But I’m still here, right?

00:46:13.687 –> 00:46:17.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Forty-five years later, I still made a career out of it.

00:46:17.067 –> 00:46:21.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I guess it’s not all doom and gloom, right?

00:46:21.907 –> 00:46:30.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think maybe, hanging my hope on the idea that it’s not worse, it’s just different.

00:46:31.107 –> 00:46:37.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Okay, so if we want to succeed in the music industry, we’ve got to look at where it’s going.

00:46:37.387 –> 00:46:44.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, you can’t be, you know, you can’t be sort of trying to hold back the sea.

00:46:44.387 –> 00:46:45.727
ROBONZO: Right, right.

00:46:45.827 –> 00:46:49.187
ROBONZO: I did want to ask you about like kind of health and stamina.

00:46:49.187 –> 00:47:01.327
ROBONZO: So you’ve been playing trumpet at a really high level, and I imagine it is or can be physically demanding, whether it’s the actual playing or the touring or, you know, the sitting and waiting or whatever it is.

00:47:02.847 –> 00:47:08.547
ROBONZO: But how has your approach to taking care of yourself changed over time?

00:47:08.547 –> 00:47:16.407
ROBONZO: And what do you think young session players might not be thinking about with regard to long term physical health?

00:47:16.447 –> 00:47:20.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Look, I think trumpet players are renown for being unhealthy, right?

00:47:21.527 –> 00:47:27.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: That’s just that they drink too much beer, and they don’t get enough sleep.

00:47:29.227 –> 00:47:31.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But I do like to keep fit.

00:47:31.487 –> 00:47:33.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I like to keep healthy.

00:47:33.687 –> 00:47:38.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think it’s another branch of taking care of business, right?

00:47:38.507 –> 00:47:42.087
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that’s really what we’re down to, isn’t it?

00:47:42.087 –> 00:47:43.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s about taking care of business.

00:47:44.087 –> 00:47:52.407
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And this idea of, you know, the things we’ve spoken about already, you know, finding out what the client wants and making sure they get it.

00:47:52.567 –> 00:47:57.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I think it’s encumbered upon us to be the energy, the stamina.

00:47:57.447 –> 00:48:05.047
JOHNNY THIRKELL: As I said earlier, I think sometimes, you know, I’ve had a session where I’m just not getting what the guy wants, right?

00:48:05.047 –> 00:48:09.787
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so we’ll try something and we’ll track it up, and then they’ll say, yeah, that’s not quite right.

00:48:11.327 –> 00:48:13.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So we’ll try another approach and we’ll try something different.

00:48:13.447 –> 00:48:25.367
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so, you know, sometimes you can be there, well, not often, actually, but, but, you know, sometimes you can be there eight, nine hours, you know, just trying to find the right sound for the guy.

00:48:25.367 –> 00:48:27.647
ROBONZO: And that’s hard work.

00:48:27.647 –> 00:48:29.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so you need to be, you know, you can’t be flagging.

00:48:29.967 –> 00:48:35.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You do need to be physically, you know, in pretty good shape and healthy.

00:48:36.987 –> 00:48:42.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And as you alluded to earlier, touring, I mean, touring is, it’s tough.

00:48:42.227 –> 00:48:44.547
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, at whatever level you do it in, right?

00:48:44.547 –> 00:48:56.047
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s not, it doesn’t matter whether you’re in the back of a splitter van, you know, or you’re traveling in a sort of sleeper coach.

00:48:56.047 –> 00:48:58.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, the sort of bigger bands, you’ll travel in the sleeper coach.

00:48:58.807 –> 00:49:01.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You’ve got your own bunk, but that’s only for overnight.

00:49:01.847 –> 00:49:04.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Then go to a hotel and check into the hotel.

00:49:04.567 –> 00:49:06.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, you know, you looked after it very well.

00:49:09.107 –> 00:49:20.667
JOHNNY THIRKELL: However, you know, what I often say to people is being on tour, on a big tour, it’s a bit like, if you think about the day you go on holiday, right?

00:49:20.667 –> 00:49:25.307
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, how tiring, think how tiring that is, okay?

00:49:25.307 –> 00:49:29.787
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You’ve got to get your bags, you’ve got to get out here, and this whole thing, it’s quite a tiring experience.

00:49:29.787 –> 00:49:33.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Imagine doing that every day for three, four months.

00:49:34.467 –> 00:49:38.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, it doesn’t matter how much luxury you’re in, you’ve still got to do that stuff, right?

00:49:38.807 –> 00:49:45.407
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You still got to get up at five o’clock, or if you’re flying, or I much prefer bus tours, they’re much easier.

00:49:45.407 –> 00:49:48.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But, you know, so you need to be in shape, otherwise you’re just not going to make it, right?

00:49:48.967 –> 00:49:50.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You’re going to be exhausted.

00:49:50.987 –> 00:49:54.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, yeah, touring can be quite hard.

00:49:54.747 –> 00:50:02.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And also looking after yourself, not getting, you know, you get in the dressing room and there’s a whole, the rider is there.

00:50:02.907 –> 00:50:04.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You don’t be a rider monster.

00:50:04.607 –> 00:50:06.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You get guys who will go in there.

00:50:06.627 –> 00:50:10.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s like a swarm of locusts, they’ll sweep across it.

00:50:10.607 –> 00:50:14.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Chocolate and cheese and ham and beer, all at the same time.

00:50:14.767 –> 00:50:15.887
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s not good for you.

00:50:15.887 –> 00:50:18.927
ROBONZO: Right.

00:50:18.927 –> 00:50:26.827
ROBONZO: I imagine it does, and I’ve talked about this and talked to other musicians about it, it does take some forethought too in terms of like, okay, what am I going to do to take care of myself?

00:50:26.827 –> 00:50:34.107
ROBONZO: How am I going to manage the, you know, the inevitable diet situa, you know, eating situations that are going to come up in the land?

00:50:34.107 –> 00:50:39.667
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, well, I think I try and lose a bit of weight before I go on tour.

00:50:39.667 –> 00:50:42.407
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Because inevitably, now I don’t drink either of rematter.

00:50:42.407 –> 00:50:44.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So that’s a plus for me.

00:50:44.587 –> 00:50:46.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I used to think that I don’t drink anymore.

00:50:46.527 –> 00:50:48.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I can’t, I mean.

00:50:48.847 –> 00:50:52.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But yeah, I will always try to lose a little bit of weight before I went.

00:50:53.027 –> 00:51:03.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Knowing that, just by the hint of the lifestyle, you’re going to be eating, as a trumpet player, I can’t really eat before the gig, you know, because if you’ve got a full stomach, it’s hard to play the trumpet.

00:51:03.507 –> 00:51:09.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I tend to be eating, you know, once the gig’s done, right, 10.30 or whatever.

00:51:09.347 –> 00:51:11.167
JOHNNY THIRKELL: That’s not the healthiest way to live.

00:51:11.167 –> 00:51:12.467
ROBONZO: Right.

00:51:12.527 –> 00:51:18.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So yeah, you get guys who are runners, okay, you know, they’ll, and I admire those people.

00:51:18.387 –> 00:51:20.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’m not a runner.

00:51:20.507 –> 00:51:24.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s not particularly the English thing to do, run.

00:51:27.007 –> 00:51:34.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But yeah, you get guys who are up, irrespective of what time we went to bed, they’re up in the morning and they’re out and about running.

00:51:34.467 –> 00:51:49.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s not my thing, but I like to, actually, since the advent of the Apple Watch and those sorts of devices, you know, you can set yourself a target, whatever it is, your 10,000 steps or 12,000 steps, whatever you want to do, and just make sure you’re keeping active.

00:51:49.407 –> 00:51:57.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I use that a lot, actually, in the health app on my Apple Watch, just to make sure that I am getting 10,000 steps a day.

00:51:57.187 –> 00:52:00.207
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And, you know, I’m getting enough exercise.

00:52:00.407 –> 00:52:04.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I think you have to, you do have to work at it.

00:52:04.527 –> 00:52:06.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: A lot of people don’t.

00:52:06.227 –> 00:52:07.027
ROBONZO: Yeah, sure.

00:52:08.247 –> 00:52:12.627
ROBONZO: So, after all these years, you’ve written what I believe is a memoir.

00:52:12.627 –> 00:52:13.487
ROBONZO: Is that safe to say?

00:52:14.167 –> 00:52:15.247
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, it is.

00:52:15.247 –> 00:52:15.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, it is.

00:52:15.947 –> 00:52:17.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It sounds rather grand.

00:52:18.727 –> 00:52:19.487
ROBONZO: But you’ve done a lot.

00:52:19.667 –> 00:52:22.827
ROBONZO: You’ve been around so many interesting people and you’ve just had this long career.

00:52:23.167 –> 00:52:25.987
ROBONZO: But why do it now?

00:52:25.987 –> 00:52:30.927
ROBONZO: And why rather than say like a podcast series or a documentary or something like that?

00:52:30.987 –> 00:52:40.247
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, well, you know, you may have guessed, but I can, you know, I’m a talker, you know.

00:52:40.247 –> 00:52:46.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s like the blue touch for everyone stand well back and then go make a cup of tea and come back and I’ll still be going.

00:52:46.627 –> 00:52:51.407
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So over the years in bars, in over the dinner table, right?

00:52:51.407 –> 00:52:53.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ve been telling these stories for years.

00:52:53.947 –> 00:52:57.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Like I said, kidnapped by the Japanese mafia, been shot at in the Philippines.

00:52:57.947 –> 00:52:59.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ve been deported from America.

00:52:59.647 –> 00:53:01.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ve been arrested twice.

00:53:01.647 –> 00:53:06.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: All these things, I’ve been telling these stories for years and people have been saying to me, oh, you should write this stuff down.

00:53:06.487 –> 00:53:08.547
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, really should write it down.

00:53:08.547 –> 00:53:11.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ve always thought, who cares?

00:53:11.527 –> 00:53:15.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Nobody’s gonna want to read this stuff.

00:53:15.107 –> 00:53:30.667
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And then a very good friend of mine, one of these guys who’d been pushing me to write it down, he came to me one day and he said, can you imagine if you go up into the loft of your house and you found a book written by your grandfather just about his life?

00:53:30.667 –> 00:53:32.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: My grandfather was a coal miner.

00:53:33.007 –> 00:53:35.547
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Imagine if you found a book that your grandfather had written about his life.

00:53:35.547 –> 00:53:36.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: How would you feel about that?

00:53:36.687 –> 00:53:43.927
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that just took the legs from underneath me because I don’t know about you, Roberto, but I would love that.

00:53:43.927 –> 00:53:49.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Even if nothing happened in his life, imagine that, my grandfather’s voice coming off the page.

00:53:50.027 –> 00:53:51.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that’s what did it.

00:53:51.467 –> 00:53:57.087
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, I wrote this because I thought, well, you know, one day, I’ve got to have grandchildren now.

00:53:57.087 –> 00:53:59.087
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They’re all very little, I isn’t right.

00:53:59.087 –> 00:54:04.007
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But, you know, as they grow up, I think they may be interested in hearing this stuff.

00:54:04.007 –> 00:54:10.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, that baldy old bloke, he wasn’t always that way.

00:54:10.287 –> 00:54:12.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, they have an interesting life.

00:54:12.627 –> 00:54:14.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I wrote it for that reason.

00:54:14.807 –> 00:54:19.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I have been absolutely astounded by its success.

00:54:19.487 –> 00:54:28.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, it’s beyond my wildest expectations but I sort of thought, well, you know, maybe if I sell 100 copies, that would be fine.

00:54:28.567 –> 00:54:34.027
JOHNNY THIRKELL: That will just cover the cost of the sort of little bits of promo.

00:54:34.027 –> 00:54:39.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But I’m way over a thousand copies and I’m just absolutely…

00:54:39.427 –> 00:54:43.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: This book got to number four in the music business chart on Amazon.

00:54:43.827 –> 00:54:45.227
ROBONZO: That’s great.

00:54:45.287 –> 00:54:46.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, it’s amazing.

00:54:46.727 –> 00:54:49.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I mean, I’m a barely literal half-wit.

00:54:49.747 –> 00:54:52.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: How that’s happened, I have no idea.

00:54:53.907 –> 00:54:55.927
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But look, I’m very, very grateful.

00:54:57.067 –> 00:55:04.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It is gratifying to think that people actually are interested in this stuff.

00:55:05.547 –> 00:55:12.047
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I honestly never thought people would be interested in this kind of stuff, but it seems 1200 of them are.

00:55:12.907 –> 00:55:19.127
ROBONZO: Well, I like the way you frame the question about your grandfather working in the coal mines.

00:55:22.847 –> 00:55:36.967
ROBONZO: I was enthralled with a piece of historical fiction that my wife turned me on to that takes place in the small town outside of Monterrey, Mexico, where my dad grew up and it’s set during that time period.

00:55:37.207 –> 00:55:40.867
ROBONZO: So, it’s the only window that I have currently.

00:55:40.867 –> 00:55:47.287
ROBONZO: Besides some remaining family members, the only window I have into his early life, much less my grandfather.

00:55:47.287 –> 00:55:49.967
ROBONZO: So, yeah, that’s a great thing to think about.

00:55:50.087 –> 00:55:52.867
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I bet Roberta, that is really precious to you, right?

00:55:52.867 –> 00:55:53.367
ROBONZO: Totally.

00:55:53.367 –> 00:55:53.807
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:55:53.807 –> 00:55:55.427
ROBONZO: I got to talk to the author not too long ago.

00:55:55.427 –> 00:55:58.347
ROBONZO: She’s a very popular Mexican author.

00:55:58.407 –> 00:55:58.747
ROBONZO: Wow.

00:55:58.747 –> 00:55:59.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Amazing.

00:55:59.587 –> 00:56:00.087
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Amazing.

00:56:00.087 –> 00:56:00.207
ROBONZO: Yeah.

00:56:00.247 –> 00:56:07.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Look, I think that that insight is really is, I would, I mean, sadly, I didn’t find it.

00:56:07.287 –> 00:56:16.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: My grandfather didn’t write a book, but I can imagine how I would feel if it came around, because these are, you can’t put a price on that, you know?

00:56:16.847 –> 00:56:17.507
ROBONZO: No kidding.

00:56:17.507 –> 00:56:18.027
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Well, I can’t.

00:56:18.047 –> 00:56:21.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: 11.99.

00:56:21.487 –> 00:56:24.167
ROBONZO: Did you do traditional publishing or self-publishing or some sort of?

00:56:24.227 –> 00:56:35.087
JOHNNY THIRKELL: No, I still, well, my experience, Roberto, of, and this may be interesting to the listeners, my experience with music is such that I, so I self-published.

00:56:35.627 –> 00:56:47.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I have no interest in signing to a publisher, because it’s my, it’s certainly, this is my experience, as I mentioned earlier, we own like 20,000 master rights.

00:56:47.947 –> 00:57:09.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And it’s, you know, maybe 2,000 to 3,000 of those are sort of either original works that I’ve written on my, somebody in the team has written, or there may be arrangements of traditional, you know, traditional pieces that are out of copyright.

00:57:09.547 –> 00:57:16.027
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I, we published them ourselves, because publisher, okay, let’s imagine I went to a publisher with this book.

00:57:16.027 –> 00:57:21.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Let’s assume that a publisher was mad enough to want to publish it.

00:57:21.447 –> 00:57:22.287
JOHNNY THIRKELL: What are they going to do?

00:57:22.287 –> 00:57:25.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They’re going to get me to do all of the things I’m doing anyway, right?

00:57:25.347 –> 00:58:00.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Talking to people like you, I’ve, you know, all of the bands that I, all of the bands that I’ve played in, I’ve done podcasts, I’ve done a Level 42 podcast, I was in Level 42 for 10 years, Level 42 podcast of Swing At Sister, Lisa Stansfield, you know, Swing At Sister, Jamiroquai, all of these bands, that’s how I sort of promulgated this book, by doing either a podcast or write a blog piece for their website, or I’ll do some kind of commentary on their Facebook fan pages.

00:58:00.687 –> 00:58:04.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that’s all the publishers are going to do for me, really.

00:58:04.467 –> 00:58:06.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They’re just going to ask me to do the same stuff.

00:58:06.567 –> 00:58:09.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So my feeling is that I may as well do it myself.

00:58:10.387 –> 00:58:11.867
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’m a pretty organized guy.

00:58:12.047 –> 00:58:13.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I know it’s not for everyone, right?

00:58:13.947 –> 00:58:21.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Self-publishing is not for everyone, because there are quite a few sort of wrinkles to iron out.

00:58:22.307 –> 00:58:30.927
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But for me, and my advice to anyone, songwriters or anything is ownership is everything.

00:58:31.667 –> 00:58:36.667
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If you own your work, then you’re in control of it.

00:58:36.667 –> 00:58:49.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, you know, if you’re a songwriter, I would say if you are a songwriter, for example, or a singer songwriter, publishers are not really paying advances anymore, as far as I understand.

00:58:49.727 –> 00:58:55.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So if you were to form your own publishing company, right, which is easy to do, in the UK, it’s easy to do.

00:58:55.447 –> 00:58:57.547
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You just say it exists and it exists.

00:58:58.347 –> 00:59:03.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It doesn’t even need to be sort of a limited liability company.

00:59:03.267 –> 00:59:10.987
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If you do that and then all of you self-publish all of your own compositions, then you’re in the driving seat.

00:59:12.047 –> 00:59:26.887
JOHNNY THIRKELL: If come the day when you have a hit or you have a record that is successful, okay, the publishers will come knocking on your door, then you’re in the driving seat, right, because you already published that piece and you can pull the shots, right?

00:59:27.067 –> 00:59:34.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Either you can do a single song assignment to them or you can say, well, okay, if you want that song, I want you to buy my whole catalogue.

00:59:34.447 –> 00:59:38.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I want you to take over my whole catalogue and pay me accordingly.

00:59:38.427 –> 00:59:39.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You know, you’re in the driving seat.

00:59:39.687 –> 00:59:52.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And for me, I think in this day and age where self-promotion, self-publicity is so much more possible, I think ownership is the answer because then you’re in the driving seat.

00:59:53.747 –> 00:59:59.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You can at a later stage, you can just sign one of your pieces to a publicist.

00:59:59.187 –> 00:59:59.847
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You’re in the driving seat.

00:59:59.847 –> 01:00:01.347
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You make the choices, right?

01:00:01.347 –> 01:00:02.387
ROBONZO: Yeah.

01:00:02.387 –> 01:00:04.027
ROBONZO: That makes sense.

01:00:04.027 –> 01:00:20.827
ROBONZO: It sounds like the endeavor was very personal, but has it taken on some sort of fit into your career, your career strategy or like as a continuing credibility builder, a revenue streamer?

01:00:20.827 –> 01:00:23.227
ROBONZO: What’s the actual value becoming?

01:00:24.347 –> 01:00:27.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’m not naive enough to get the young man’s game, okay?

01:00:28.367 –> 01:00:31.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And work is going to get less and less.

01:00:31.827 –> 01:00:37.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Luckily, touch wood, I’m still working, still pretty busy at the moment, but that’s not going to continue forever.

01:00:37.427 –> 01:00:45.207
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And also, I’m in a position where I can pick and choose a bit more, and I want to do things that I want to do.

01:00:45.207 –> 01:00:53.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so the book for me is going to be a conduit into, just before COVID, the dreaded COVID, before COVID paid to everything.

01:00:53.927 –> 01:01:00.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I did a little tour called Blown It, and it was a lovely little show.

01:01:00.607 –> 01:01:04.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It was just me, and all I did was tell a story, play a tune.

01:01:04.747 –> 01:01:06.507
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Tell a story, play a tune.

01:01:06.507 –> 01:01:10.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Have a little bit of a question and answer session.

01:01:10.807 –> 01:01:12.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And they were just lovely evenings.

01:01:12.567 –> 01:01:15.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ve met some really lovely people.

01:01:15.147 –> 01:01:17.547
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I decided when it was going to be and how long it was.

01:01:18.887 –> 01:01:21.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And that is where I’m heading.

01:01:21.527 –> 01:01:30.267
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I also think I mentioned earlier, I run a series of residential music camps.

01:01:30.527 –> 01:01:37.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’m very fortunate enough to have a big old farmhouse in the near Granada in Southern Spain.

01:01:37.187 –> 01:01:39.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And we take eight students out there.

01:01:39.587 –> 01:01:40.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I do a trumpet camp.

01:01:40.707 –> 01:01:47.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I do a bass camp with all the bass player from Jameriquai, a guitar camp with Rob, the guitarist from Jameriquai.

01:01:47.427 –> 01:01:49.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So, I take all of these people who are in my address book.

01:01:49.907 –> 01:01:51.067
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Guys I’ve known, right?

01:01:51.067 –> 01:01:52.007
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They’re all top guys.

01:01:52.007 –> 01:01:54.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: The drummer is a guy called Ash Sohn.

01:01:55.167 –> 01:01:56.047
ROBONZO: I don’t know Ash Sohn.

01:01:56.047 –> 01:01:57.587
ROBONZO: I know of him.

01:01:59.567 –> 01:02:01.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah, these are world-class guys.

01:02:03.047 –> 01:02:04.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So this is my…

01:02:04.527 –> 01:02:06.527
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I will never retire, Roberto.

01:02:07.487 –> 01:02:08.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It will drive me nuts.

01:02:08.887 –> 01:02:11.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ll just be a wreck.

01:02:11.607 –> 01:02:12.727
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I like to keep busy.

01:02:12.727 –> 01:02:13.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I like to keep active.

01:02:13.747 –> 01:02:15.327
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I like to use my brain.

01:02:16.047 –> 01:02:18.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And so this is the direction in which I’m heading.

01:02:18.827 –> 01:02:22.767
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So these music camps, I’ve started out doing like two a year.

01:02:22.767 –> 01:02:26.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And in 2026, I’ve already got 18 of them booked.

01:02:26.487 –> 01:02:27.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And it’s lovely.

01:02:27.227 –> 01:02:30.807
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I stay at my own house and I get to swim every day, walk in the mountains.

01:02:30.807 –> 01:02:32.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s lovely.

01:02:32.227 –> 01:02:32.867
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So there’s that.

01:02:32.867 –> 01:02:42.107
JOHNNY THIRKELL: But the book, getting back to the book, the book is going to be my sort of entree into re sort of hashing that one-man show.

01:02:42.727 –> 01:02:47.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’ve sent it out to a whole bunch of promoters in various theatres around the UK.

01:02:47.687 –> 01:02:52.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And I’m hoping to put together, just beginning to put together a tour in December.

01:02:52.487 –> 01:02:55.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’m pretty busy right up until the middle of November.

01:02:55.607 –> 01:02:59.567
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So I’m trying to put together a tour in December of that.

01:02:59.567 –> 01:03:00.927
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And it’s a lovely thing to do.

01:03:01.127 –> 01:03:05.247
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s something my wife and I can just tootle up there.

01:03:05.247 –> 01:03:11.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And yeah, go and tell a few stories, play a few tunes and have a nice time, meet some nice people.

01:03:11.147 –> 01:03:12.227
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s really lovely.

01:03:12.227 –> 01:03:13.587
ROBONZO: That’s amazing.

01:03:13.587 –> 01:03:17.867
ROBONZO: And where, okay, so the book is called Blown It.

01:03:17.867 –> 01:03:18.867
ROBONZO: I’m very slow, Johnny.

01:03:18.867 –> 01:03:22.567
ROBONZO: It just now occurred to me why, kind of why, part of why you named it that.

01:03:22.567 –> 01:03:24.227
ROBONZO: I like the title a lot.

01:03:24.967 –> 01:03:30.267
ROBONZO: But so where can people get it?

01:03:30.267 –> 01:03:31.447
JOHNNY THIRKELL: They can get it.

01:03:31.447 –> 01:03:39.427
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So at the moment, it’s available on Amazon as a paperback and as a Kindle.

01:03:40.307 –> 01:03:47.967
JOHNNY THIRKELL: You can also get, I had a lot of people saying, can I get a copy with a dedication in for a friend or something like that?

01:03:47.967 –> 01:03:53.087
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So you can get that from my website, which is johnnythirkell.com.

01:03:54.687 –> 01:04:03.747
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So you go to the website and go to the Blown It page, say what message you want and I will write it in there and post it off to you.

01:04:04.127 –> 01:04:04.687
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So that’s that.

01:04:04.687 –> 01:04:10.607
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And then I’m also, I’m just about to start the audio book version.

01:04:10.607 –> 01:04:12.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: So yeah, the short answer.

01:04:12.147 –> 01:04:14.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There’s never a short answer with me, Roberto.

01:04:15.847 –> 01:04:17.947
JOHNNY THIRKELL: The short answer is Amazon.

01:04:17.947 –> 01:04:18.707
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah.

01:04:18.707 –> 01:04:19.087
ROBONZO: Great.

01:04:19.087 –> 01:04:23.187
ROBONZO: And then Blown It, the one man show is kind of what you were alluding to a moment ago, right?

01:04:23.187 –> 01:04:25.727
ROBONZO: Where you’re telling these stories as well?

01:04:25.727 –> 01:04:26.227
ROBONZO: Yeah.

01:04:26.227 –> 01:04:26.647
JOHNNY THIRKELL: That’s right.

01:04:26.647 –> 01:04:27.207
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yeah.

01:04:27.207 –> 01:04:29.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s just I tell these stories.

01:04:29.627 –> 01:04:33.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: There are so many stories, Roberto, that just didn’t make it into the book.

01:04:33.187 –> 01:04:35.827
JOHNNY THIRKELL: The book’s already 316 pages long.

01:04:35.827 –> 01:04:42.187
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I thought that’s enough for any people to be losing the will to live by the time they get to the end of that.

01:04:42.247 –> 01:05:02.147
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And actually, what I really, really enjoy about The One Man Show is it’s different every night, because I have a couple of question and answer bits, and people will ask a question which will lead me off in an entirely different direction, and I’ll end up telling an entirely different story, different to the one I planned to tell.

01:05:03.187 –> 01:05:07.127
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It just makes it really fluid, it makes it really interesting for me.

01:05:07.127 –> 01:05:10.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: And then of course, I play some tunes in between all of this.

01:05:10.967 –> 01:05:12.387
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s lovely, I really love it.

01:05:12.387 –> 01:05:22.107
ROBONZO: And if someone listening to my little podcast wants to find out how to book a one-man show, Blown It one-man show, can they find that out on your website?

01:05:22.107 –> 01:05:23.487
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yes, they’ll find it on the website.

01:05:23.487 –> 01:05:32.467
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Yes, there is a section called Blown It, and there’s a book page and there’s a contact details where people can book me to do the show, yes.

01:05:32.467 –> 01:05:32.747
ROBONZO: Cool.

01:05:32.747 –> 01:05:53.867
ROBONZO: Well, I will put the website URL in the show notes, and for anyone who can actually remember or is writing it down, it’s johnnythirkell, I guess the traditional spelling of johnny, j-o-h-n-n-y, and thirkell is thirkell.com, and it’s a great website, by the way, and this has been a really great conversation.

01:05:53.867 –> 01:05:57.607
ROBONZO: I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me.

01:05:57.607 –> 01:05:58.587
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Now, listen, thank you, Ruben.

01:05:58.587 –> 01:05:59.547
JOHNNY THIRKELL: It’s been really lovely.

01:05:59.547 –> 01:06:03.907
JOHNNY THIRKELL: I’m sorry I talk so much, but let’s say it’s the nature of the beast.

01:06:03.907 –> 01:06:06.267
ROBONZO: I enjoyed it thoroughly.

01:06:06.267 –> 01:06:06.627
JOHNNY THIRKELL: Me too.

01:06:09.107 –> 01:06:11.927
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01:06:11.927 –> 01:06:13.987
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01:07:01.387 –> 01:07:05.667
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01:07:05.667 –> 01:07:10.527
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01:07:10.527 –> 01:07:20.727
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01:07:21.207 –> 01:07:25.287
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01:07:27.827 –> 01:07:29.207
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01:07:29.207 –> 01:07:31.387
ROBONZO: Peace, gratitude, and a whole lot of love.