Transcript auto-generated by Apple Podcasts

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PAID AD: Oh, hey, welcome to Gift Wrapping.

00:00:01.940 –> 00:00:03.420
PAID AD: Whoa, Zoe Saldana.

00:00:03.420 –> 00:00:05.060
PAID AD: Hey, can you wrap these, please?

00:00:05.060 –> 00:00:06.700
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PAID AD: The new center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies.

00:00:13.420 –> 00:00:14.880
PAID AD: It’s the perfect gift for everyone.

00:00:14.880 –> 00:00:15.620
PAID AD: I’m the worst.

00:00:15.620 –> 00:00:16.940
PAID AD: I only got my mom a robe.

00:00:16.940 –> 00:00:18.420
PAID AD: Well, it’s better than socks.

00:00:18.420 –> 00:00:21.060
PAID AD: So I have to trade in my old phone, right?

00:00:21.060 –> 00:00:23.640
PAID AD: No, at T-Mobile, there’s no trade-ins needed when you switch.

00:00:23.640 –> 00:00:26.160
PAID AD: Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.

00:00:26.400 –> 00:00:27.280
PAID AD: Incredible.

00:00:27.280 –> 00:00:29.940
PAID AD: In fact, wrap up my old phone, too, for my Aunt Rosa.

00:00:29.940 –> 00:00:30.560
PAID AD: Forget that.

00:00:30.560 –> 00:00:31.720
PAID AD: Aunt Liz will be jealous.

00:00:31.720 –> 00:00:33.340
PAID AD: Sounds like my family drama.

00:00:33.340 –> 00:00:34.000
PAID AD: Oh, I got it.

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PAID AD: I’ll give it to my abuela.

00:00:34.920 –> 00:00:36.160
PAID AD: I’ll take reindeer paper with.

00:00:36.160 –> 00:00:37.180
PAID AD: Hey, where are you going?

00:00:37.180 –> 00:00:38.200
PAID AD: To T-Mobile.

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PAID AD: The holidays are better at T-Mobile.

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PAID AD: Get four iPhone 17s on us.

00:00:41.540 –> 00:00:42.860
PAID AD: No trade-in needed when you switch.

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PAID AD: Plus four lines for just $25 a line.

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PAID AD: And now T-Mobile is available in US cellular stores.

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PAID AD: Visit tmobile.com.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Welcome to another episode of The Unstarving Musician.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I’m Robonzo.

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AMANI ROBERTS: This podcast features interviews with independent musicians, artists and creative professionals who share their experience and expertise on recording, touring gigs and the creative process marketing and more.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I also drop solo episodes that focus on themes from my conversations, research and off-mic interviews.

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AMANI ROBERTS: It is all intended to help independent creatives better understand the marketing business and creative processes that empowers to do more of what we love, empower us to do more of what we love, create work and music that matters.

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AMANI ROBERTS: My guest for this episode is Amani Roberts.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Amani is a music business educator, author of USA Today, bestseller The Quiet Storm.

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AMANI ROBERTS: He’s a DJ and a public speaker.

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AMANI ROBERTS: But before I get to that, how are you?

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AMANI ROBERTS: Where are you?

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AMANI ROBERTS: What are you wearing?

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AMANI ROBERTS: I hope something comfortable, maybe warm.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Or if it’s already warm where you are, something cool.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Hey, Ezra Vansil, who’s been on the podcast a couple of times, has a new single and video out.

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AMANI ROBERTS: The song is called Island.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I really think you should check it out.

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AMANI ROBERTS: It’s a beautiful video.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I’m going to put a link in the show notes.

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AMANI ROBERTS: And yes, he is going to be dripping singles out, I guess, for the next, I bet he’s going to go into the second quarter of 2026, which is not that far away, right?

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AMANI ROBERTS: 2026.

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AMANI ROBERTS: All right, something I wanted you to consider, and I thought you might enjoy or get you thinking anyway, is something I, what do you call it, swiped from an email newsletter I get published by Arnold Schwarzenegger, and a couple of guys he’s got working with him to look at a lot of studies, and help decipher things that are actually real in the world of fitness and well-being.

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AMANI ROBERTS: But anyway, let me just quote this, and yeah, you can let it sink in.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Knowledge doesn’t change behavior.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Friction does.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Here’s an old question.

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AMANI ROBERTS: What do I need to know to change this behavior?

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AMANI ROBERTS: Better question, what’s preventing me from doing what I already know how to do?

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AMANI ROBERTS: They go on to say, most people believe change starts with learning more, but research shows that knowing what to do doesn’t guarantee doing it.

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AMANI ROBERTS: The real barrier is not ignorance, it’s interference.

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AMANI ROBERTS: We don’t need more information.

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AMANI ROBERTS: We need fewer obstacles between intention and action.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I may put a link to that in an upcoming edition of Liner Notes.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I’m not sure I’m going to put one on the show notes for this, the link being to the actual research they referenced in that, but I thought that was pretty cool.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I think that a lot of artistic types, we have friction that we need to leverage or sometimes avoid.

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AMANI ROBERTS: So yes, listen, just in time for the holidays, I’ve released a new coffee mug in The Unstarving Musician’s Store.

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AMANI ROBERTS: It’s the first in a series called Spartacups.

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AMANI ROBERTS: An homage to our cat Spartacus, who is no longer with us.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Spartacus was a 15 and a half pound tabby in his heyday.

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AMANI ROBERTS: The vet thought he might have been part Maine Coon, but he was the most gentle cat we ever had, Sammy and me.

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AMANI ROBERTS: He loved our dog Chico, who we rescued in Panama and still have, and he loved hanging out with us, Spartacus, as some cats do.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Spartacus was rescued in Northern California by a friend we had there and we adopted him.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I think about him a lot and knew Sammy would love this cup, so I designed it for her.

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AMANI ROBERTS: You can find one of your own in the Unstarving Musician store at unstarvingmusician.com/shop or with the link in the show notes for this episode.

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AMANI ROBERTS: All right, Independent Musicians leave significant money on the table not from lack of talent but from unclaimed royalties and overlooked revenue stream.

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AMANI ROBERTS: In this conversation, Amani Roberts reveals the specific registration gaps costing artists thousands annually.

00:05:09.620 –> 00:05:13.840
AMANI ROBERTS: He breaks down the four major royalty collection systems.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Most artists fail to utilize properly.

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AMANI ROBERTS: They would include PRO, Registration for Public Performance Royalties, SoundExchange for Digital Performance, Publishing Royalties Through Services Like Songtrust, and the Mechanical Licensing Collective.

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AMANI ROBERTS: He explains how unclaimed royalties eventually get redistributed to major labels based on market share.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Money independent artists could be collecting themselves.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Beyond royalty recovery, Amani shares his framework for building a private and corporate event business that can generate 5 to 10 times more revenue than traditional bar gigs.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I know that’s personally true.

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AMANI ROBERTS: He details the specific industry associations to join, including MPI, PCMA, and CITE, S-I-T-E, how to price yourself for corporate events, and the contract elements that differ from venue bookings.

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AMANI ROBERTS: The conversation also covers email list building strategies that convert social media followers into owned audience assets, how book publishing creates revenue opportunities beyond book sales, and why direct fan-to-artist platforms should be every musician’s first 90-day priority.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I will be breaking down some of this discussion in an upcoming edition of Liner Notes.

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AMANI ROBERTS: You can subscribe to Liner Notes at unstarvingmusician.com/linernotes to get my in-depth analysis tips, actionable items, and downloadable resources.

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AMANI ROBERTS: So if you want to learn about these topics and others I’ve discussed on the show, there is a high-value free edition and a more in-depth version called Liner Notes Insider.

00:06:52.860 –> 00:06:58.000
AMANI ROBERTS: So just go to unstarvingmusician.com/linernotes to sign up for the free version.

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AMANI ROBERTS: You can unsubscribe at any time.

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AMANI ROBERTS: And now here’s me talking with Amani Roberts.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, how you doing today?

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AMANI ROBERTS: Good, good, good to see you.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, likewise.

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AMANI ROBERTS: You look just like in your pictures.

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AMANI ROBERTS: That’s a good thing, right?

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AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, I need to get mine redone.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Mine’s about eight years old or something.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Okay, you still look the same way too, so don’t worry.

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AMANI ROBERTS: A little dork.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Are you based in Redondo Beach?

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AMANI ROBERTS: I’m in Las Vegas now, Las Vegas.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Oh, wow.

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AMANI ROBERTS: How long have you been there?

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AMANI ROBERTS: Almost two years.

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AMANI ROBERTS: You like it?

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AMANI ROBERTS: Yes, it’s like it’s very different, but I like it.

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AMANI ROBERTS: It’s cool.

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AMANI ROBERTS: It works.

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AMANI ROBERTS: What took you there?

00:07:38.060 –> 00:07:46.480
AMANI ROBERTS: I moved here because it’s a good space place to be a professional speaker and a DJ.

00:07:46.480 –> 00:07:49.980
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s more affordable than LA and it was time for a change for me in life.

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AMANI ROBERTS: So I said, let’s try out Vegas.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Okay, I get it.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Where are you from originally?

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AMANI ROBERTS: From the DC area, Washington DC area.

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AMANI ROBERTS: So I grew up there.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I lived in Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Miami, LA, and Vegas.

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AMANI ROBERTS: All the big towns.

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AMANI ROBERTS: So where did your music interests begin?

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AMANI ROBERTS: Music interests began like, I’ll say my dad really exposed me to music.

00:08:16.580 –> 00:08:26.200
AMANI ROBERTS: Like he would always wake my brother and I up on like a Saturday morning, playing music from the stair downstairs in the car.

00:08:26.200 –> 00:08:28.560
AMANI ROBERTS: I played a lot of soccer growing up, travel soccer.

00:08:28.560 –> 00:08:34.060
AMANI ROBERTS: So I was kind of elite level, driving up and down the East Coast of the US to tournaments.

00:08:34.120 –> 00:08:40.120
AMANI ROBERTS: Saw all his music in the car, started playing an instrument like second or third grade.

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AMANI ROBERTS: So that’s kind of how it all started.

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AMANI ROBERTS: What kind of music was your dad into when you were talking about those memories there?

00:08:48.840 –> 00:08:54.100
AMANI ROBERTS: He was into jazz and then R&B, what we call now like funk, old school R&B.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

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AMANI ROBERTS: So before we get into the frameworks you teach and all the things around that, do you have any, I was looking at our original email and you mentioned that that Brie Noble episode that we did.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Do you have any stories from your early days as a DJ or an educator where you look back and reflect on it as very humble beginnings?

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AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Oh, absolutely.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I can share with you now if you like.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Please.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I’ll take one from DJing and then one from being a professor.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I went to Scratch Academy to learn how to DJ.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I didn’t know there was such thing.

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AMANI ROBERTS: That’s amazing.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

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AMANI ROBERTS: Jam Master Jay from Run DMC started it in New York.

00:09:37.580 –> 00:09:38.400
AMANI ROBERTS: They brought out West.

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AMANI ROBERTS: He was murdered maybe six months after they started, but they kept the school going, brought out West.

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AMANI ROBERTS: I went to the school in LA.

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AMANI ROBERTS: To go through the program, it’s like getting your master’s degree.

00:09:48.940 –> 00:09:50.520
AMANI ROBERTS: There’s six different semesters.

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AMANI ROBERTS: You have to pass each class and you advance.

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AMANI ROBERTS: For the final class, it’s all about performing.

00:09:57.900 –> 00:10:07.680
AMANI ROBERTS: You perform different types of sets, whether it be a set you play at a lounge, prime time at a club, opening set, opening with requests, all these different sets.

00:10:07.680 –> 00:10:15.200
AMANI ROBERTS: The final exam is you’re performing in front of your peers, and you’re taking the time slot of a club, and the burn rules in effect.

00:10:15.200 –> 00:10:17.740
AMANI ROBERTS: So if someone plays a song before you, you can’t play that song.

00:10:17.740 –> 00:10:20.520
AMANI ROBERTS: So you have to really dig into your catalog.

00:10:20.520 –> 00:10:26.980
AMANI ROBERTS: In order to pass the class, you have to get a 320 out of 400, basically a B, 80 percent.

00:10:26.980 –> 00:10:31.540
AMANI ROBERTS: When I went through, my final score was 318 out of 400.

00:10:31.540 –> 00:10:33.060
AMANI ROBERTS: Then they didn’t pass me.

00:10:33.060 –> 00:10:37.040
AMANI ROBERTS: And so that was very humbling, because I was probably one of the more older people in the class.

00:10:37.040 –> 00:10:40.120
AMANI ROBERTS: I was used to being an overachiever, and it was very humbling.

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AMANI ROBERTS: So I had to sit there driving back down the 405 in LA, which you know is always traffic, and think about whether or not I wanted to come back and take that final class again, where once you fail at one time, you’re like, if the percentages for people who pass the class are like 60 percent, it drops as you take it again because you just don’t do well.

00:11:00.440 –> 00:11:04.880
AMANI ROBERTS: So the next percentage was like 25 percent of people who take it a second time pass it.

00:11:04.880 –> 00:11:06.420
AMANI ROBERTS: So it was going to be very challenging.

00:11:06.420 –> 00:11:13.440
AMANI ROBERTS: But I decided to not take my ball and go home, take the class again, end up getting one of the highest scores ever.

00:11:13.440 –> 00:11:23.380
AMANI ROBERTS: It is because I really searched for help, got some help from, you know, DJs, extra DJ instructors there, particularly VFresh.

00:11:23.380 –> 00:11:27.060
AMANI ROBERTS: And that I was also of service to my classmates and just did very well.

00:11:27.060 –> 00:11:30.180
AMANI ROBERTS: So that was a very humbling experience with a happy ending.

00:11:30.180 –> 00:11:36.240
AMANI ROBERTS: When it comes to school teaching, I got this teaching position I never taught before at the high school or college level.

00:11:36.240 –> 00:11:38.640
AMANI ROBERTS: I grew up the son of a professor.

00:11:38.640 –> 00:11:41.980
AMANI ROBERTS: And I never ever wanted to do anything my dad did.

00:11:41.980 –> 00:11:46.140
AMANI ROBERTS: But somehow, someway, there comes this teaching opportunity.

00:11:46.140 –> 00:11:48.000
AMANI ROBERTS: And so I’m getting ready for my first day of class.

00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:49.040
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s going to be on a Tuesday.

00:11:49.800 –> 00:11:53.160
AMANI ROBERTS: I was going to teach back to back, one to four and four to seven.

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AMANI ROBERTS: And I arrive on campus at like 12 o’clock.

00:11:57.020 –> 00:12:00.700
AMANI ROBERTS: And it takes me an hour and a half to find parking.

00:12:00.700 –> 00:12:03.560
AMANI ROBERTS: So I end up for my first day being 30 minutes late.

00:12:03.560 –> 00:12:04.940
AMANI ROBERTS: It was so bad.

00:12:04.940 –> 00:12:07.040
AMANI ROBERTS: And so that was very humbling.

00:12:07.040 –> 00:12:09.300
AMANI ROBERTS: The first semester I taught was very difficult.

00:12:09.300 –> 00:12:10.800
AMANI ROBERTS: Never taught before.

00:12:10.800 –> 00:12:12.080
AMANI ROBERTS: But I got through it.

00:12:12.080 –> 00:12:14.680
AMANI ROBERTS: And then there was a time period during they asked me to come back.

00:12:14.720 –> 00:12:15.640
AMANI ROBERTS: They said, Oh, will you come back?

00:12:15.640 –> 00:12:15.940
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes.

00:12:15.940 –> 00:12:17.740
AMANI ROBERTS: They adjusted my times.

00:12:17.740 –> 00:12:19.720
AMANI ROBERTS: So then I was teaching 10 a.m.

00:12:19.720 –> 00:12:20.300
AMANI ROBERTS: to 1 p.m.

00:12:20.300 –> 00:12:20.940
AMANI ROBERTS: and 4 to 7.

00:12:20.940 –> 00:12:23.740
AMANI ROBERTS: So I had a half three hour break in the middle.

00:12:23.740 –> 00:12:28.920
AMANI ROBERTS: And they were like, it was a time period when I was in my 4 p.m.

00:12:28.920 –> 00:12:33.360
AMANI ROBERTS: class, probably early middle of the semester, and it just clicked.

00:12:33.360 –> 00:12:35.060
AMANI ROBERTS: Like I saw the class was engaging.

00:12:35.060 –> 00:12:36.780
AMANI ROBERTS: We’re having good conversation.

00:12:36.780 –> 00:12:39.900
AMANI ROBERTS: We were teaching in this old haunted building, but it still worked.

00:12:39.900 –> 00:12:43.580
AMANI ROBERTS: So that will be one example of humbling experiences.

00:12:43.580 –> 00:12:47.540
AMANI ROBERTS: There’s two examples that end up working out very well.

00:12:47.840 –> 00:12:49.140
AMANI ROBERTS: Those are good.

00:12:49.320 –> 00:12:50.120
AMANI ROBERTS: Those are good.

00:12:50.120 –> 00:12:54.600
AMANI ROBERTS: Tell me about your book, The Quiet Storm, and why you wrote it.

00:12:54.600 –> 00:12:55.840
AMANI ROBERTS: Oh, The Quiet Storm.

00:12:55.840 –> 00:13:02.280
AMANI ROBERTS: So The Quiet Storm, a historical and cultural analysis of the power, passion, and pain of R&B groups.

00:13:02.280 –> 00:13:05.720
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s like a love letter from me to R&B.

00:13:05.720 –> 00:13:09.000
AMANI ROBERTS: I wrote it because in grad school, I went to Berklee College of Music.

00:13:09.000 –> 00:13:10.860
AMANI ROBERTS: It was my thesis project.

00:13:10.860 –> 00:13:14.820
AMANI ROBERTS: So I turned the thesis into a book, and just expanded it.

00:13:15.440 –> 00:13:20.360
AMANI ROBERTS: I have a love for R&B groups, slow gems particularly, but all R&B.

00:13:20.360 –> 00:13:26.760
AMANI ROBERTS: And I knew that there were no more, like R&B groups have kind of disappeared, but people don’t really realize it until you tell them.

00:13:26.760 –> 00:13:29.600
AMANI ROBERTS: So I wanted to further explore that topic.

00:13:29.600 –> 00:13:33.360
AMANI ROBERTS: And I finished, launched a book in February of 2025.

00:13:33.360 –> 00:13:36.680
AMANI ROBERTS: We made the USA Today bestseller list on the launch week.

00:13:36.680 –> 00:13:43.460
AMANI ROBERTS: And it’s just, it’s amazing book, lots of pictures, just rare footage and pictures inside the book.

00:13:43.460 –> 00:13:54.920
AMANI ROBERTS: It gives you the top 10 or 11 R&B groups per decade based on Grammy wins, record sales, notable performances and Billboard Hot 100 hits.

00:13:54.920 –> 00:13:58.280
AMANI ROBERTS: And it takes you through their, each individual group’s journey.

00:13:58.280 –> 00:14:05.520
AMANI ROBERTS: And in the last 20% of the book is what happened to R&B groups, why they disappear and what will happen next.

00:14:05.520 –> 00:14:12.020
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s kind of gives you an outline of the book, the genesis of it, and the end results.

00:14:12.020 –> 00:14:14.820
AMANI ROBERTS: I have to ask because you said it was part of it.

00:14:14.820 –> 00:14:17.860
AMANI ROBERTS: Well, it was your thesis project at Berkeley.

00:14:20.000 –> 00:14:28.580
AMANI ROBERTS: Do a lot of students do that or do too many miss the opportunity to turn a thesis into a potential book?

00:14:28.580 –> 00:14:29.560
AMANI ROBERTS: Great question.

00:14:29.560 –> 00:14:35.700
AMANI ROBERTS: I think too many students miss the opportunity because it’s a daunting project and writing a book scares people.

00:14:37.700 –> 00:14:41.060
AMANI ROBERTS: I work with authors and I help them finish their project.

00:14:41.060 –> 00:14:50.820
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s part of people in my coaching program and there’s a stat I love to share where 81% of people in the US and probably abroad too have a book inside of them.

00:14:50.840 –> 00:14:56.320
AMANI ROBERTS: 5% of that 81% will start the book and 5% of the 5% will finish.

00:14:56.560 –> 00:15:08.100
AMANI ROBERTS: Just take for example if you have a crowd of 500 people, we’ll say 405 of them have a book inside of them and then you’ll say 20 people will start and maybe one person will finish.

00:15:09.080 –> 00:15:12.340
AMANI ROBERTS: I just think that writing a book is hard.

00:15:12.340 –> 00:15:16.120
AMANI ROBERTS: It scares people but finishing a book is even harder so to speak.

00:15:16.120 –> 00:15:17.780
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s my answer to that.

00:15:17.780 –> 00:15:19.480
AMANI ROBERTS: That was a great question though, yeah.

00:15:19.480 –> 00:15:30.740
AMANI ROBERTS: Well assuming finishing by finishing you mean just getting to the last sentence and then there’s all the stuff that comes after.

00:15:30.740 –> 00:15:34.200
AMANI ROBERTS: It makes writing it look like the easy part, doesn’t it?

00:15:34.200 –> 00:15:36.560
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes, the editing, the promoting.

00:15:38.060 –> 00:15:41.200
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s a beautiful monster as we say.

00:15:41.200 –> 00:15:41.660
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s great.

00:15:41.660 –> 00:15:45.800
AMANI ROBERTS: Well, I asked the question because I have a young friend who’s a musician here in Querétaro.

00:15:45.800 –> 00:15:55.960
AMANI ROBERTS: So he’s very talented and he’s just a gem of a person and I know he’s just wrapping up all the things that they have to do here for his thesis.

00:15:55.960 –> 00:15:58.080
AMANI ROBERTS: I’m going to suggest that he write a book.

00:15:58.080 –> 00:15:59.380
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes, yes.

00:15:59.380 –> 00:16:02.260
AMANI ROBERTS: And I’ll show him I’ll show him you as a case study.

00:16:02.260 –> 00:16:03.120
AMANI ROBERTS: Please do.

00:16:03.120 –> 00:16:04.240
AMANI ROBERTS: Absolutely.

00:16:04.240 –> 00:16:09.120
AMANI ROBERTS: I think I want to say that I heard someone talk about what happened with R&B.

00:16:09.120 –> 00:16:11.640
AMANI ROBERTS: So it’s cool that you wrote your book about this.

00:16:11.860 –> 00:16:17.380
AMANI ROBERTS: And it may have been a completely different genre, but I feel like I may have read something about it.

00:16:17.380 –> 00:16:19.580
AMANI ROBERTS: So I’m curious about the history.

00:16:19.580 –> 00:16:21.480
AMANI ROBERTS: I’ll have to pick up a copy and check it out.

00:16:21.480 –> 00:16:22.380
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, please do.

00:16:22.380 –> 00:16:23.440
AMANI ROBERTS: Let me know what you think.

00:16:23.440 –> 00:16:25.680
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, well, okay.

00:16:25.680 –> 00:16:28.680
AMANI ROBERTS: Let’s talk about missing royalties and revenue recovery.

00:16:28.680 –> 00:16:33.660
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s probably one of the first things that caught my attention when I first got your email.

00:16:33.660 –> 00:16:40.500
AMANI ROBERTS: But what are the most common types of royalties that indie musicians fail to collect?

00:16:40.560 –> 00:16:43.780
AMANI ROBERTS: And what’s typically at stake financially?

00:16:43.780 –> 00:16:50.560
AMANI ROBERTS: I think there’s probably three, well actually four, but I would say like, first, it’s like their public performance royalties.

00:16:50.560 –> 00:16:59.320
AMANI ROBERTS: You would be shocked to just see how many independent musicians don’t sign up for a PRO, Performance Rights Organization.

00:16:59.320 –> 00:17:03.480
AMANI ROBERTS: In the US, it’s primarily ASCAP, BMI, and CSAC.

00:17:03.480 –> 00:17:05.180
AMANI ROBERTS: I’m not sure what it is in Mexico though.

00:17:05.180 –> 00:17:06.260
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s a good question.

00:17:06.260 –> 00:17:07.720
AMANI ROBERTS: I should know, but I don’t.

00:17:07.780 –> 00:17:11.540
AMANI ROBERTS: I think I’ve read it before and I just kept up with it.

00:17:11.540 –> 00:17:14.580
AMANI ROBERTS: Is CSAC Canada or the US?

00:17:14.580 –> 00:17:23.520
AMANI ROBERTS: CSAC is, no, because there’s a lot of people in the US that can use CSAC, but it does cover some of Canada also, from what I understand.

00:17:26.140 –> 00:17:30.480
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s the first one that people really don’t pay attention to.

00:17:30.540 –> 00:17:42.180
AMANI ROBERTS: And it shocks me because public performance, so if your song, your music is being played in public, you know, you have your songwriting credits, you have your publishing, you need to get the PRO so you can get the revenue.

00:17:42.180 –> 00:17:49.120
AMANI ROBERTS: And so many people leave that revenue stream just kind of unclaimed, unclaimed.

00:17:49.120 –> 00:17:52.320
AMANI ROBERTS: And so that’s the first one.

00:17:52.320 –> 00:17:56.080
AMANI ROBERTS: Then the second one would be kind of your digital performance royalties.

00:17:56.640 –> 00:18:19.640
AMANI ROBERTS: So, for example, if your song is played on like, let’s look here, iHeartRadio, maybe even Pandora, some of the other streaming services, there’s royalties that you can get by, you know, signing up for a sound exchange, you know, and then there’s publishing royalties you can get by signing up, you know, getting your publishing done by a company like Songtrust.

00:18:19.640 –> 00:18:32.040
AMANI ROBERTS: So it’s like the digital performance royalties through the streaming services, and then the publishing also, that’s other missing revenue that really, really many people just don’t know about it.

00:18:32.040 –> 00:18:38.360
AMANI ROBERTS: It just continues to shock me just how many people don’t understand the impact of those royalties and how they can add up.

00:18:38.360 –> 00:18:49.340
AMANI ROBERTS: Now, of course, when you first register and get your publishing in order and do that, it could take three to nine months, but after that you get a nice check every quarter and that’s very beneficial.

00:18:49.340 –> 00:19:03.900
AMANI ROBERTS: And so like you have Songtrust, SoundExchange, so you can get both sides of a song, SoundExchange is for the sound recording side, the song recording side, which I like to call the right side, and then the publishing sound is Songtrust right there.

00:19:03.900 –> 00:19:05.540
AMANI ROBERTS: So that’s it right there.

00:19:05.540 –> 00:19:16.600
AMANI ROBERTS: And then for the digital performance royalties, like on all the non-interactive digital services, Pandora, SiriusXM, iHeartRadio, that’s royalties that people leave on the table there.

00:19:16.600 –> 00:19:22.320
AMANI ROBERTS: So that’s the three main royalties that people forget about or don’t focus on when they release music.

00:19:22.320 –> 00:19:27.640
AMANI ROBERTS: Did we leave any, are there any other organizations that they should think about or at least put high on the list?

00:19:27.640 –> 00:19:29.100
AMANI ROBERTS: It seems like there’s about a half a dozen right?

00:19:29.100 –> 00:19:33.460
AMANI ROBERTS: So there’s a PRO, SoundExchange, Songtrust, any others that come to mind?

00:19:33.460 –> 00:19:42.200
AMANI ROBERTS: I also mentioned the Mechanical Licensing Collective, the MLC, because they can kind of get what maybe you’re missing either not getting from Songtrust or SoundExchange.

00:19:42.200 –> 00:19:44.200
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s kind of another one.

00:19:44.200 –> 00:19:50.860
AMANI ROBERTS: Now sometimes if you register with Songtrust, they’ll also do the MLC work for you, but that’s still a good one to know also.

00:19:50.860 –> 00:19:51.540
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:19:51.540 –> 00:19:51.820
AMANI ROBERTS: Okay.

00:19:51.820 –> 00:19:52.120
AMANI ROBERTS: Thanks.

00:19:52.120 –> 00:19:52.420
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s good.

00:19:52.420 –> 00:19:53.400
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s good recap for me.

00:19:54.060 –> 00:19:57.540
AMANI ROBERTS: I know all these, but it’s easy to forget.

00:19:57.540 –> 00:19:58.520
AMANI ROBERTS: So yes.

00:19:58.520 –> 00:19:59.780
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes.

00:19:59.780 –> 00:20:08.280
AMANI ROBERTS: How far back can artists typically go to recover unclaimed royalties and what’s the, probably varies, but what’s the general process for it?

00:20:08.280 –> 00:20:11.780
AMANI ROBERTS: I’ve seen as far back as four years.

00:20:11.780 –> 00:20:13.000
AMANI ROBERTS: Okay.

00:20:13.000 –> 00:20:15.440
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s probably the longest duration of time that I’ve seen.

00:20:15.440 –> 00:20:17.780
AMANI ROBERTS: Now some people could have gotten it further back.

00:20:18.060 –> 00:20:25.420
AMANI ROBERTS: I’ve seen four years, but that’s a good thing to monitor and ask around and see because if it’s longer, it just benefits the artists to sign up sooner.

00:20:26.480 –> 00:20:26.740
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:20:26.740 –> 00:20:26.940
AMANI ROBERTS: Sure.

00:20:26.940 –> 00:20:31.700
AMANI ROBERTS: I guess there’s a lot that just maybe let one of these slip through for years and then like.

00:20:31.780 –> 00:20:32.020
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:20:32.020 –> 00:20:36.280
AMANI ROBERTS: And the challenge is that these royalties will go into what they call the black box.

00:20:36.280 –> 00:20:44.240
AMANI ROBERTS: And then if it goes unclaimed for say longer than four years, they divided up amongst the major record labels according to market share.

00:20:44.240 –> 00:20:46.260
AMANI ROBERTS: So you’re actually giving your money to the majors.

00:20:46.560 –> 00:20:50.360
AMANI ROBERTS: And so that’s just another unfortunate occurrence.

00:20:50.360 –> 00:20:50.580
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:20:50.580 –> 00:20:52.140
AMANI ROBERTS: And that’s an example for years, right?

00:20:52.140 –> 00:20:54.100
AMANI ROBERTS: So it could be longer, maybe shorter.

00:20:54.260 –> 00:20:54.980
AMANI ROBERTS: Okay.

00:20:54.980 –> 00:20:55.360
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes.

00:20:55.360 –> 00:20:56.700
AMANI ROBERTS: Cool.

00:20:56.980 –> 00:21:04.940
AMANI ROBERTS: What do you think the biggest misconceptions are that artists have about royalty collection that end up costing them money?

00:21:07.680 –> 00:21:15.560
AMANI ROBERTS: That all, like I would say, streaming is where you can get the majority of your royalties from.

00:21:15.560 –> 00:21:22.560
AMANI ROBERTS: In reality, nowadays, you don’t really get a lot from streaming unless you’re part of the top one or two percent artist.

00:21:22.560 –> 00:21:29.280
AMANI ROBERTS: But you can get some decent income from your mechanical royalties, from like sales or streaming.

00:21:29.280 –> 00:21:32.480
AMANI ROBERTS: Or you can get a lot from like public performance royalties, which can help.

00:21:32.480 –> 00:21:33.300
AMANI ROBERTS: And then publishing.

00:21:34.060 –> 00:21:38.440
AMANI ROBERTS: I think people just kind of don’t understand publishing because it’s very complex.

00:21:38.440 –> 00:21:40.240
AMANI ROBERTS: And they don’t really pay too much attention to it.

00:21:40.240 –> 00:21:44.560
AMANI ROBERTS: So they might give away some of the publishing when they should try to hold on to as much of it as possible.

00:21:44.560 –> 00:21:53.120
AMANI ROBERTS: So the misconception is that you’re going to get most of your money from streaming where I don’t really feel and haven’t seen that to be the case for the majority of independent artists.

00:21:53.120 –> 00:21:56.760
AMANI ROBERTS: I know because I say this because I talk about it enough and read about it enough.

00:21:56.760 –> 00:22:00.720
AMANI ROBERTS: But you think that you would think that all the kids know this now.

00:22:00.720 –> 00:22:01.960
AMANI ROBERTS: You would think but they don’t.

00:22:02.740 –> 00:22:03.700
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s a lot.

00:22:03.700 –> 00:22:04.540
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s a lot.

00:22:04.540 –> 00:22:13.960
AMANI ROBERTS: People, most creatives don’t want to focus on the business side and many people’s goals is just to see their song, hear the song on the radio or see it on a pretty big playlist.

00:22:13.960 –> 00:22:21.400
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s their initial goal when if they would maybe plan a little bit more long-term, they could see some more financial benefits sooner.

00:22:21.400 –> 00:22:22.860
AMANI ROBERTS: Vanity goals.

00:22:22.860 –> 00:22:23.700
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes.

00:22:25.680 –> 00:22:37.800
AMANI ROBERTS: Can you walk through the steps an artist should take to identify and again I know realize it may vary but so maybe it’s more of an example but they can take to identify and claim missing royalties that they might be owed?

00:22:37.800 –> 00:22:51.060
AMANI ROBERTS: I think once they get registered with a PRO and they start registered with like a SoundExchange or a Songtrust, they really need to make sure that they have their metadata in order.

00:22:51.460 –> 00:23:04.700
AMANI ROBERTS: So they have if they have the metadata order for each song, if they work with different writers, they need to have the split sheets and all that agreed upon first, then they want to make sure that everything is the same.

00:23:04.700 –> 00:23:09.840
AMANI ROBERTS: Their artist name and how they list everything with these services is identical.

00:23:09.840 –> 00:23:19.540
AMANI ROBERTS: You can’t have like a John Henry as the person who’s registered for the PRO but then you have a different name for a different PRO or things like that.

00:23:19.600 –> 00:23:25.340
AMANI ROBERTS: They need to make sure everything is identical because metadata issues are the primary cause for missing royalties.

00:23:25.340 –> 00:23:37.980
AMANI ROBERTS: So they need to first learn about metadata, make sure it’s all matching across all sides of the song when they’re submitting it, when they’re releasing it, then once they register for the SoundTrust, SoundExchange, MLC, it all matches.

00:23:37.980 –> 00:23:41.080
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s what trips up most artists right away.

00:23:42.340 –> 00:23:47.920
AMANI ROBERTS: To simplify it, the metadata is largely so the artist can be found.

00:23:48.920 –> 00:23:54.380
AMANI ROBERTS: Basically, yeah, yeah, you want to be found consistently the same time, the same way each time.

00:23:54.380 –> 00:24:03.400
AMANI ROBERTS: And then you will also have within that metadata, how much of the song that you own, who else’s own parts of the song, all that.

00:24:03.400 –> 00:24:04.200
AMANI ROBERTS: Okay.

00:24:04.200 –> 00:24:19.200
AMANI ROBERTS: And I assume that my recollection is that when you’re registering a piece of work with one of the, I’m going to misname them, but you know, one of the providers that distributes your music to like the streaming services for example.

00:24:19.200 –> 00:24:39.120
AMANI ROBERTS: And then assuming that you have gotten registered with the other organizations, but that initial organization that’s going to help you with distribute, I guess, the distributor, the DIY distributor, that they’re very helpful in making sure that you have your metadata in order.

00:24:39.120 –> 00:24:40.700
AMANI ROBERTS: But I guess that’s only part of the way, right?

00:24:40.700 –> 00:24:42.440
AMANI ROBERTS: Because you’re registering with all these other places.

00:24:43.280 –> 00:24:45.320
AMANI ROBERTS: Are there other places that needs to be plugged in?

00:24:45.320 –> 00:24:56.560
AMANI ROBERTS: Or would they necessarily get your metadata from where you were originally having your music distributed through the service that they’re originally distributing through?

00:24:56.560 –> 00:25:03.980
AMANI ROBERTS: So I think like you would use the distributors like a CD Baby, TuneCore, DistroKid, those are probably the three popular ones.

00:25:03.980 –> 00:25:10.560
AMANI ROBERTS: If your metadata is complete and tight before you use them, then it’ll just spread, they’ll release it to all the services.

00:25:11.080 –> 00:25:19.660
AMANI ROBERTS: Then in addition, you want to register for like the sound exchange and the song trust, but with the same metadata so it matches.

00:25:19.660 –> 00:25:29.480
AMANI ROBERTS: So you want to have the metadata done first, then you go and release the song on the streaming platforms through your distribution, then you have your publishing done for both sides, then you have the sound exchange.

00:25:29.480 –> 00:25:36.560
AMANI ROBERTS: So if you can have it tight in the beginning, and then you just cut and paste for each of the other services, that would be good.

00:25:36.560 –> 00:25:41.200
AMANI ROBERTS: And they do give you plenty of options to, they remind you, make sure it matches.

00:25:41.920 –> 00:25:47.120
AMANI ROBERTS: They kind of give little pop ups that help out, but it’s better to have it done first and then release it.

00:25:47.120 –> 00:25:47.980
AMANI ROBERTS: Perfect.

00:25:47.980 –> 00:25:49.540
AMANI ROBERTS: Instead of doing it retroactively.

00:25:49.540 –> 00:25:51.460
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s where you hit the challenges.

00:25:51.460 –> 00:25:52.980
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, that’s helpful.

00:25:52.980 –> 00:25:56.840
AMANI ROBERTS: Okay, let’s shift to private and corporate event business.

00:25:57.860 –> 00:25:58.180
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:25:58.540 –> 00:26:00.320
AMANI ROBERTS: What’s the revenue?

00:26:00.320 –> 00:26:07.520
AMANI ROBERTS: These days, what’s the revenue potential difference between playing bar gigs versus like private or corporate events for independent artists?

00:26:08.100 –> 00:26:13.040
AMANI ROBERTS: I’m kind of laughing a little bit inside partly because I’ve been playing music so long.

00:26:13.040 –> 00:26:20.220
AMANI ROBERTS: But the other funny thing is it feels like for bar gigs and such that the pay has not changed over the decades.

00:26:21.480 –> 00:26:31.920
AMANI ROBERTS: Well, let’s say the bar gig you might get, we’ll just say probably 150, 200, maybe 300 depending on how long you’re playing and how often, but it’s not a lot.

00:26:31.920 –> 00:26:40.760
AMANI ROBERTS: I would say for a corporate gig, especially if you’re playing for a corporate client on stage, you may get 2, 3,000 depending on the budget.

00:26:40.760 –> 00:26:53.100
AMANI ROBERTS: Now, sometimes you will have to do a corporate gig for less, but generally speaking, you’re going to get 5 to 10 times as much for corporate gigs, especially as you become more experienced, more known, and you do bigger events because corporate gigs have bigger budgets.

00:26:54.660 –> 00:27:24.600
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s all about trying to meet the proper meeting or event professionals, planners who are managing the entertainment, or you want to partner and collaborate with DMC’s Destination Management Companies so that when they have their clients that need, you know, maybe they need a singer to sing during the opening reception, or they need a band to play during their final party, or they might even need like a violin player to play during one of their breaks.

00:27:24.600 –> 00:27:39.940
AMANI ROBERTS: You know, you want to partner with these people who have better budgets than a bar or club, there’s better hours also, and it’s just probably a little bit, I don’t know how the best way is, it’s not an easier gig, but it’s less stressful, if that makes sense.

00:27:39.940 –> 00:27:42.080
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, it can be for sure.

00:27:42.620 –> 00:27:45.300
AMANI ROBERTS: And in a way, they can be funner a lot of times.

00:27:45.300 –> 00:27:47.220
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s my memory.

00:27:47.220 –> 00:27:51.180
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, I was thinking about it today, and I appreciate you framing it the way you did.

00:27:51.180 –> 00:27:58.460
AMANI ROBERTS: I was thinking today, I’m like, well, my memory is it can be at 10x the revenue difference.

00:27:58.460 –> 00:28:03.160
AMANI ROBERTS: But I think, yeah, 5 to 10x is probably a great way to frame it.

00:28:03.160 –> 00:28:06.260
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, 10x is not that out of the picture.

00:28:06.260 –> 00:28:10.940
AMANI ROBERTS: Like if you get two or 300 for a bar gig and you’re working four hours, 10 p.m.

00:28:10.940 –> 00:28:18.720
AMANI ROBERTS: to 2 a.m., you could realistically get three to 5,000 working a corporate event from maybe like a seven to nine or six to eight.

00:28:18.720 –> 00:28:20.580
AMANI ROBERTS: Like that is not out of the question.

00:28:22.600 –> 00:28:37.100
AMANI ROBERTS: So I just encourage musicians, I think the dream is to play in the bar, get the crowd loving you, but if you want to create sustainable income, corporate events and private events are a good focus.

00:28:37.100 –> 00:28:38.080
AMANI ROBERTS: Indeed.

00:28:38.080 –> 00:28:46.200
AMANI ROBERTS: What does an artist with limited following, how do they break into the private and corporate markets?

00:28:47.360 –> 00:28:57.640
AMANI ROBERTS: So what I had great experience is looking in your area for the event planning associations.

00:28:57.640 –> 00:28:59.280
AMANI ROBERTS: I’ll give you three.

00:28:59.280 –> 00:29:03.740
AMANI ROBERTS: My favorite one to work with, I do a lot of work with, is called Meeting Professionals International.

00:29:03.740 –> 00:29:06.540
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s a large meeting and events association.

00:29:06.540 –> 00:29:14.700
AMANI ROBERTS: They have individual chapters across the world, like there’s a chapter in Southern California, Pacific Northwest, Chicago, DC, Southern Florida.

00:29:15.640 –> 00:29:23.300
AMANI ROBERTS: These chapters have members who are meeting professionals, who are going to these meetings to learn about what’s going on in the industry.

00:29:23.300 –> 00:29:26.720
AMANI ROBERTS: They’re going to these meetings to get their continuing education credits.

00:29:26.720 –> 00:29:32.680
AMANI ROBERTS: So that’s a natural place for you to first go to meet them, and kind of a little bit of a safer space.

00:29:32.680 –> 00:29:47.260
AMANI ROBERTS: Then if you’re a musician, I don’t like, this is one area where I would say, it’s okay to donate your services for exposure because you’re going to be right in front of a market that, a quote unquote target rich market, where they can see you and hire you.

00:29:47.260 –> 00:29:48.980
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s the first association.

00:29:48.980 –> 00:29:54.020
AMANI ROBERTS: The second one is PCMA, Professional Conference Managers Association.

00:29:54.020 –> 00:29:55.480
AMANI ROBERTS: I believe that’s what the acronym stands for.

00:29:55.480 –> 00:30:01.740
AMANI ROBERTS: Same kind of audience, they just handle different types of events, but they have local chapters all over the world.

00:30:01.740 –> 00:30:06.780
AMANI ROBERTS: So not only can you work with the local chapters, but eventually you can work with the national chapters too.

00:30:06.780 –> 00:30:10.980
AMANI ROBERTS: Like for me, I work with the Southern California Chapter First as a DJ.

00:30:11.420 –> 00:30:16.040
AMANI ROBERTS: I would DJ the meetings, I would do the walk-on, walk-off music, receptions.

00:30:16.040 –> 00:30:19.760
AMANI ROBERTS: Then eventually I volunteered, so I became active.

00:30:19.760 –> 00:30:21.820
AMANI ROBERTS: I eventually became Chapter President.

00:30:21.840 –> 00:30:23.900
AMANI ROBERTS: I did a lot of volunteering, a lot of work.

00:30:23.900 –> 00:30:28.460
AMANI ROBERTS: And then I got notice from the national organization.

00:30:28.460 –> 00:30:32.940
AMANI ROBERTS: So now they bring me into their big conference every year to be the digital host.

00:30:32.940 –> 00:30:35.340
AMANI ROBERTS: And I got that through my time period there.

00:30:35.340 –> 00:30:37.860
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s MPI, PCMA is another one.

00:30:38.120 –> 00:30:45.380
AMANI ROBERTS: A third one would be CITE, S-I-T as in Tom E, Society for Incentive Travel Executives.

00:30:45.380 –> 00:30:51.660
AMANI ROBERTS: These are the executives that plan for say you work for like a pharmaceutical company and you’re a top salesperson.

00:30:51.660 –> 00:30:55.820
AMANI ROBERTS: So you win the trip that the top 2% go to every year.

00:30:55.820 –> 00:30:59.420
AMANI ROBERTS: Well, these are the professionals that plan those type of events.

00:30:59.420 –> 00:31:09.420
AMANI ROBERTS: So if you want to go to like get hired to play in like a Hawaii, you know, maybe it’s a resort destination in Mexico or anywhere in the world.

00:31:09.420 –> 00:31:15.820
AMANI ROBERTS: These are the event planners that are picking and choosing the acts and the music and the entertainment for those events.

00:31:15.820 –> 00:31:24.020
AMANI ROBERTS: And so those are three associations where you can join the local chapter and also get exposed to chapters across the world that could hire you.

00:31:24.020 –> 00:31:27.560
AMANI ROBERTS: And it’s just a lot of our performers and musicians don’t know.

00:31:27.560 –> 00:31:37.200
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s why I’m so passionate about sharing with them to get them exposure so that they can go and try to build the private event and corporate event sides of their business.

00:31:37.200 –> 00:31:42.220
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, I played corporate events and I didn’t know about these organizations myself.

00:31:42.220 –> 00:31:46.720
AMANI ROBERTS: I’m sure some of my peers do and some of the folks I’ve spoken with for sure.

00:31:46.720 –> 00:31:48.000
AMANI ROBERTS: But yeah, that’s great knowledge.

00:31:48.000 –> 00:31:48.700
AMANI ROBERTS: Thank you.

00:31:48.700 –> 00:31:50.500
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s great.

00:31:50.500 –> 00:32:02.540
AMANI ROBERTS: What are the specific skills or presentation elements artists need to develop and succeed when they’re trying to get these types of events versus traditional venues?

00:32:02.540 –> 00:32:10.320
AMANI ROBERTS: I would say really it seems basic, but just be easy to work with, be friendly, be collaborative.

00:32:10.660 –> 00:32:23.500
AMANI ROBERTS: I know as creatives we can be a little bit stuck in our ways and less flexible, but if you’re easy to work with and you make it a pleasant experience, people will come back to you time and time again to work with you.

00:32:23.500 –> 00:32:29.740
AMANI ROBERTS: And I think in addition to that, just kind of be very, very organized with your e-mail responses.

00:32:29.740 –> 00:32:35.640
AMANI ROBERTS: I know it’s one of my pet peeves, but if you’re an artist, I think you should get your own domain name.

00:32:35.640 –> 00:32:40.140
AMANI ROBERTS: If you’re like, your name is Leslie Jones, the singer, you should get lesliejones.com.

00:32:40.140 –> 00:32:45.840
AMANI ROBERTS: So you have a professional e-mail coming to these professionals instead of a Gmail.

00:32:45.840 –> 00:32:48.820
AMANI ROBERTS: I know that’s a little prickly point, but that’s personal opinion.

00:32:48.820 –> 00:32:58.780
AMANI ROBERTS: I think responding quickly to requests, you will be shocked how many times people don’t respond quickly to requests and lose out on a potential gig.

00:32:58.780 –> 00:33:10.240
AMANI ROBERTS: And then just being knowledgeable of contracts, so that you can send a contract, and be able to see if the client sends you a contract, be able to make sure that you’re covered also.

00:33:10.240 –> 00:33:20.200
AMANI ROBERTS: So those are kind of the three main points I would say for our fellow musicians to really, really grow and be very collaborative in that space, in the corporate event space.

00:33:20.200 –> 00:33:32.140
AMANI ROBERTS: Do you have tips for, I think, one thing that I notice a lot, and not just among musicians, but this whole domain name thing, what do you have places that you recommend that, well, I’m sorry, let me back up.

00:33:32.140 –> 00:33:34.460
AMANI ROBERTS: I think it’s mostly just like they don’t want to spend the money to do it.

00:33:34.460 –> 00:33:35.740
AMANI ROBERTS: I don’t think it’s that hard to do.

00:33:35.740 –> 00:33:40.700
AMANI ROBERTS: But do you have places that you typically send or recommend musicians go?

00:33:40.700 –> 00:33:49.220
AMANI ROBERTS: I was thinking for a moment that like, but maybe I’m sort of forgetting about some of the costs, but like Google, you can get domain email through them.

00:33:49.220 –> 00:33:51.220
AMANI ROBERTS: But I may be forgetting part of the cost of that.

00:33:51.300 –> 00:33:53.760
AMANI ROBERTS: But yeah, what are your recommendations there?

00:33:53.760 –> 00:33:57.420
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, GoDaddy is probably a good one right there, godaddy.com.

00:33:57.420 –> 00:34:01.220
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s going to cost you $20 a year to get your own domain name.

00:34:01.220 –> 00:34:04.700
AMANI ROBERTS: Now if you build a website on top of that, it might cost you more.

00:34:04.700 –> 00:34:09.660
AMANI ROBERTS: But even so, it’s just going to be so much more professional.

00:34:09.660 –> 00:34:13.380
AMANI ROBERTS: And it’s going to all be like coming from one place.

00:34:13.380 –> 00:34:17.120
AMANI ROBERTS: Your website is like, you know, lesliejones.com.

00:34:17.120 –> 00:34:19.260
AMANI ROBERTS: Your email address is info at lesliejones.com.

00:34:19.260 –> 00:34:22.740
AMANI ROBERTS: It just all kind of comes together instead of having a Gmail.

00:34:22.740 –> 00:34:25.040
AMANI ROBERTS: And I think that just is a better look.

00:34:25.040 –> 00:34:28.040
AMANI ROBERTS: And it will go longer and impress more people.

00:34:28.040 –> 00:34:30.200
AMANI ROBERTS: I agree.

00:34:30.200 –> 00:34:35.940
AMANI ROBERTS: What are the factors that musicians should consider when they’re trying to price themselves for private events?

00:34:35.940 –> 00:34:37.740
AMANI ROBERTS: One of the biggest things to consider.

00:34:37.740 –> 00:34:44.460
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, this is hard because generally speaking, in sales you want to be able to determine what their budget is.

00:34:44.460 –> 00:34:49.220
AMANI ROBERTS: So sometimes you can ask, okay, can you share with me what kind of budget you’re working with for this event?

00:34:49.220 –> 00:34:50.640
AMANI ROBERTS: And a lot of times they say, oh, I don’t know.

00:34:50.640 –> 00:34:51.220
AMANI ROBERTS: It depends.

00:34:51.220 –> 00:34:52.020
AMANI ROBERTS: They kind of dodge at us.

00:34:52.020 –> 00:34:53.860
AMANI ROBERTS: You really have to be good with the sales portion.

00:34:53.860 –> 00:35:05.380
AMANI ROBERTS: You can also look at who have they hired in the past and kind of you can see, okay, if they’re hiring like a full five or seven piece band, you know, then that lets you know they have a little bit of budget.

00:35:05.380 –> 00:35:09.500
AMANI ROBERTS: And so it’s kind of look at who they’ve hired in the past, ask them for their budget.

00:35:09.500 –> 00:35:12.940
AMANI ROBERTS: And then, you know, it’s hard.

00:35:12.940 –> 00:35:16.840
AMANI ROBERTS: Price what you feel you’re worth, have a little flexibility and then just stick to your worth.

00:35:17.560 –> 00:35:25.880
AMANI ROBERTS: And a lot of times, you know, depending on if it’s your first time getting an inquiry, you might want to give them a discount because you want to get in their good graces.

00:35:25.880 –> 00:35:27.380
AMANI ROBERTS: The pricing is hard.

00:35:27.380 –> 00:35:33.360
AMANI ROBERTS: Try to find out what your lowest point you will go to is and stick with that.

00:35:33.360 –> 00:35:33.920
AMANI ROBERTS: Good advice.

00:35:34.040 –> 00:35:38.820
AMANI ROBERTS: I think, you know, a lot of people forget to just ask around, like among their peers.

00:35:38.820 –> 00:35:42.540
AMANI ROBERTS: And then another hard part, as you say, is like being honest with yourself.

00:35:42.640 –> 00:35:52.820
AMANI ROBERTS: Like, where do you fit in terms of your value and trying to, as you said, you know, price what you’re worth.

00:35:52.820 –> 00:35:53.920
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, it’s hard though.

00:35:53.920 –> 00:35:54.400
AMANI ROBERTS: I get it.

00:35:54.400 –> 00:35:54.920
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s hard.

00:35:54.920 –> 00:36:05.300
AMANI ROBERTS: Maybe if they’re going to have someone there that’s going to be shooting video, okay, maybe if you get some video of your performance that you can use for a reel, then maybe you can charge a little less if they give you the video and all that.

00:36:05.300 –> 00:36:07.400
AMANI ROBERTS: So keep those things in mind also.

00:36:07.400 –> 00:36:08.300
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:36:08.300 –> 00:36:26.940
AMANI ROBERTS: And I imagine, you know, well, I know it to be true, like with experience and reputation, so yes, you may make the mistake of underpricing yourself for the first one, but with each consecutive hire, you start learning more and the reputation builds and so on.

00:36:26.940 –> 00:36:27.560
AMANI ROBERTS: Exactly.

00:36:27.560 –> 00:36:28.660
AMANI ROBERTS: I agree.

00:36:29.940 –> 00:36:31.240
AMANI ROBERTS: Maybe you have some other things.

00:36:31.240 –> 00:36:32.860
AMANI ROBERTS: We talked about some of those organizations.

00:36:32.860 –> 00:36:42.040
AMANI ROBERTS: Are there other, I don’t know, niche-type private events that people could fare it out through ways that we haven’t already touched on?

00:36:42.040 –> 00:36:47.280
AMANI ROBERTS: I’m trying to remember, there’s also services where, for musicians, you can do house concerts.

00:36:47.280 –> 00:36:47.980
AMANI ROBERTS: Right.

00:36:47.980 –> 00:36:50.100
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s a good way, especially if you’re on tour.

00:36:50.100 –> 00:36:59.620
AMANI ROBERTS: For example, if you’re performing, let’s say you’re performing on a Tuesday night in LA, you have a show on, let’s say, Thursday in San Francisco.

00:36:59.620 –> 00:37:17.580
AMANI ROBERTS: Well, Wednesday, you can try to go to maybe Santa Barbara for a house concert, see if anyone wants to hire you for that, or you can go up to the Napa Valley area or south of San Francisco, just something on the way where you can pick up some extra revenue by performing in front of someone’s house for maybe $200, $300.

00:37:17.580 –> 00:37:23.940
AMANI ROBERTS: But what’s going to happen is that you can bring your merch there, you can sell your merch, and then you’re collecting emails.

00:37:23.940 –> 00:37:32.680
AMANI ROBERTS: I think that’s another thing that’s really forgotten from our artists is that it’s good to get the vanity metrics as you spoke about, but you really want to collect emails.

00:37:32.720 –> 00:37:39.580
AMANI ROBERTS: So if you can get people on your email list through a house concert in addition to some revenue and testimonials, that’s valuable.

00:37:39.580 –> 00:37:45.140
AMANI ROBERTS: So you could try to add on a house concert on that Wednesday before your Thursday show or the Friday after.

00:37:45.140 –> 00:37:51.600
AMANI ROBERTS: So I think that’s another niche way that some artists do know about, but not as many as you would expect.

00:37:51.600 –> 00:37:51.820
AMANI ROBERTS: Right.

00:37:52.120 –> 00:37:54.400
AMANI ROBERTS: I am going to ask you about email here in a second.

00:37:54.400 –> 00:38:01.120
AMANI ROBERTS: I guess we reached a perfect segue point, but maybe you were just seeing this in your response here.

00:38:02.140 –> 00:38:09.240
AMANI ROBERTS: But one of the motivations for developing an email list, and obviously a good social following can help too.

00:38:09.240 –> 00:38:18.440
AMANI ROBERTS: But if you’re on tour, hit your email list, especially if you know you have people in the area that you’re in and let them know that you’re available for house concerts as well.

00:38:18.440 –> 00:38:34.400
AMANI ROBERTS: Then I think another tip we skipped over that can be helpful as well, is there are music-related and what’s happening about town-related groups on Facebook, for example.

00:38:34.400 –> 00:38:46.100
AMANI ROBERTS: I know that there are plenty of other social sites that do a little bit of this, where you can drop in as a touring artist and probably find out if there are people out there who are potentially interested in a house concert.

00:38:46.100 –> 00:38:50.420
AMANI ROBERTS: Obviously, if you have a big following, you can certainly get those folks up as well.

00:38:50.960 –> 00:38:54.500
AMANI ROBERTS: Eventbrite is a good source to see what’s available, what events are out there.

00:38:54.500 –> 00:38:56.020
AMANI ROBERTS: You forgot about this, guys.

00:38:56.020 –> 00:38:56.180
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:38:56.180 –> 00:38:57.060
AMANI ROBERTS: I like Eventbrite.

00:38:57.060 –> 00:38:58.720
AMANI ROBERTS: They’re a good one to research.

00:39:00.920 –> 00:39:01.820
AMANI ROBERTS: I won’t say Reddit.

00:39:01.820 –> 00:39:05.880
AMANI ROBERTS: Reddit, I’ll cover a little later because for something else, but Facebook groups are good.

00:39:05.880 –> 00:39:08.200
AMANI ROBERTS: Even you can find some stuff on Instagram.

00:39:08.200 –> 00:39:16.360
AMANI ROBERTS: But Eventbrite is a good one to really look at, especially if you’re checking to see what’s going on in the specific cities you’re going to be traveling to.

00:39:16.360 –> 00:39:16.800
AMANI ROBERTS: Good tip.

00:39:17.220 –> 00:39:18.480
AMANI ROBERTS: Good tip.

00:39:18.480 –> 00:39:41.380
AMANI ROBERTS: And then I guess lastly on this particular topic, are there contract and writer negotiation type things that you try to let musicians know about that they should think about and realize they’re going to treat a little bit differently when they’re working on corporate or private events versus maybe bars or whatever, other types of venues?

00:39:41.400 –> 00:39:44.380
AMANI ROBERTS: Usually with corporate events, you get a better structure, a better contract.

00:39:45.120 –> 00:39:46.680
AMANI ROBERTS: Always get a deposit.

00:39:46.680 –> 00:39:51.320
AMANI ROBERTS: I know that might seem basic, but still get your deposit.

00:39:51.320 –> 00:39:59.260
AMANI ROBERTS: Sometimes you can negotiate a corporate event, especially if you’re playing at a conference or, you know, it’s more like a conference.

00:39:59.260 –> 00:40:00.980
AMANI ROBERTS: You can negotiate hotel stays.

00:40:00.980 –> 00:40:03.380
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s easy for conference organizers to give.

00:40:03.380 –> 00:40:10.100
AMANI ROBERTS: So if you’re going to be playing in the evening time, you know, they can get you a complimentary hotel stay, so you can just rest, go to bed right away.

00:40:10.100 –> 00:40:11.120
AMANI ROBERTS: I would ask for that.

00:40:11.120 –> 00:40:12.360
AMANI ROBERTS: Many people forget about that.

00:40:12.740 –> 00:40:18.100
AMANI ROBERTS: Also, meals and then if you’re driving, of course, parking.

00:40:18.100 –> 00:40:23.140
AMANI ROBERTS: Don’t take it for granted because a lot of times, hotels nowadays will charge a lot of money for parking.

00:40:23.140 –> 00:40:35.000
AMANI ROBERTS: So negotiate all of these tertiary fees into your contract, which for an event planner, the hotel is really trying to please them to make sure they come back.

00:40:35.000 –> 00:40:40.040
AMANI ROBERTS: So for the hotel to comp your parking and comp a room and maybe meals is nothing to the hotel.

00:40:40.520 –> 00:40:44.260
AMANI ROBERTS: It makes the event planner’s life easy, but it takes care of you also.

00:40:44.260 –> 00:40:57.800
AMANI ROBERTS: Also within the contract, see if you can ask for testimonial so that barring everything goes well, your client will give you a written testimonial or video, which is even more popular, that you can use on your website.

00:40:57.800 –> 00:40:58.700
AMANI ROBERTS: That really helps.

00:40:58.700 –> 00:41:02.560
AMANI ROBERTS: And these are easy things for event planners to do that we just forget about.

00:41:02.560 –> 00:41:14.540
AMANI ROBERTS: So those are a couple other tips in terms of contracting, the deposit, the testimonials, the comp, room nights, days, meals, those are what comes to mind.

00:41:14.540 –> 00:41:16.180
AMANI ROBERTS: Great tips.

00:41:16.180 –> 00:41:22.540
AMANI ROBERTS: I’ve read some stories about people who just sort of little things slipped through the cracks and there was the budget for the tour, you know?

00:41:22.540 –> 00:41:22.960
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:41:22.960 –> 00:41:23.520
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:41:23.600 –> 00:41:23.880
AMANI ROBERTS: Okay.

00:41:24.860 –> 00:41:26.060
AMANI ROBERTS: Let’s talk about email marketing.

00:41:26.060 –> 00:41:27.380
AMANI ROBERTS: You were going to add something?

00:41:27.380 –> 00:41:34.280
AMANI ROBERTS: Well, if you finish performing at 8 or 9 o’clock and you don’t have to worry about driving home, you can sleep there.

00:41:34.280 –> 00:41:35.020
AMANI ROBERTS: Health is wealth.

00:41:35.020 –> 00:41:39.800
AMANI ROBERTS: And that good night’s sleep, especially if you get at a nice hotel, that’s like a treat for yourself, a little reward.

00:41:39.800 –> 00:41:41.940
AMANI ROBERTS: So that’s all I’ll say about that.

00:41:41.940 –> 00:41:42.360
AMANI ROBERTS: Right.

00:41:42.360 –> 00:41:43.060
AMANI ROBERTS: Right.

00:41:43.060 –> 00:41:43.220
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:41:43.220 –> 00:41:45.240
AMANI ROBERTS: Let’s talk about email then versus social.

00:41:45.240 –> 00:41:48.940
AMANI ROBERTS: So you advocate for email lists, which I think is great.

00:41:48.940 –> 00:41:59.160
AMANI ROBERTS: And so how about we start with what data results do you use to support that position that email lists are really, really, really important?

00:41:59.160 –> 00:42:05.360
AMANI ROBERTS: I just look at how we want to have, you know, in music business, there’s like three forms of marketing.

00:42:05.420 –> 00:42:09.560
AMANI ROBERTS: There’s owned, there’s earned, owned and paid.

00:42:09.560 –> 00:42:14.760
AMANI ROBERTS: And so when it comes to, you want to really focus on your own media.

00:42:14.760 –> 00:42:17.420
AMANI ROBERTS: Own is like your website and your email list.

00:42:17.420 –> 00:42:22.440
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s debatable whether or not you own your social media following because TikTok can go away tomorrow.

00:42:22.440 –> 00:42:25.100
AMANI ROBERTS: We saw what happened with MySpace back in the day.

00:42:25.100 –> 00:42:33.540
AMANI ROBERTS: And it’s so hard to get your content consistently in front of your followers on social because of the algorithm.

00:42:34.160 –> 00:42:43.640
AMANI ROBERTS: So you don’t want to put yourself at the mercy of the algorithm where maybe, I think the stat I saw recently was 3% of your audience on Instagram will see your posts without paying.

00:42:43.640 –> 00:42:45.440
AMANI ROBERTS: And that’s just kind of crazy.

00:42:45.440 –> 00:42:51.520
AMANI ROBERTS: So with email, you’re getting a direct contact from yourself, the artist, to the fans.

00:42:51.520 –> 00:42:53.180
AMANI ROBERTS: And that’s really important.

00:42:53.180 –> 00:42:59.940
AMANI ROBERTS: And I think so many of my artists, it’s so funny, the first day of class, I’ll ask a question to my students, my music business students.

00:42:59.940 –> 00:43:01.980
AMANI ROBERTS: I’ll say, what’s more important?

00:43:02.580 –> 00:43:05.300
AMANI ROBERTS: A large social media following or a large email list?

00:43:05.300 –> 00:43:09.800
AMANI ROBERTS: And they get up and they go to the different sides of the room and they all go to the side of the room with this like social media following.

00:43:09.800 –> 00:43:14.580
AMANI ROBERTS: And I’m like, no, you do realize that you’re paying for play pretty much.

00:43:14.580 –> 00:43:19.120
AMANI ROBERTS: And so email list, at least you own that and you can control that.

00:43:19.120 –> 00:43:21.060
AMANI ROBERTS: You can communicate with them.

00:43:21.060 –> 00:43:40.380
AMANI ROBERTS: And now I really propose, if you can, try to get your fan’s email address and their cell phone numbers, because then you can text them, you can add them to like a Lalo or subtext and you can text them updates and you just want to get as close as possible to one-to-one connection without any people in the middle, a middle man or a woman, that you can communicate with.

00:43:40.660 –> 00:43:44.380
AMANI ROBERTS: And that’s kind of my philosophy behind that.

00:43:44.380 –> 00:43:44.560
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:43:44.560 –> 00:44:04.020
AMANI ROBERTS: And you know, for those who have any doubts whatsoever, if they want maybe just a little reinforcement on what you just said, I’m thinking about a conversation I had on the podcast with a guy who lived kind of at the heights at the beginning of the big transitions of the music industry and is the lead singer for Dishwala, JR.

00:44:04.020 –> 00:44:04.460
AMANI ROBERTS: Richards.

00:44:04.460 –> 00:44:14.940
AMANI ROBERTS: And one of the things that he talked about with me in our conversation for the podcast was that they always kept an email list, which apparently he was in control of because he kept it.

00:44:14.940 –> 00:44:25.900
AMANI ROBERTS: And as a solo artist, he’s still making money doing private events and largely or maybe entirely because he has a huge email list from those days with Dishwala in the 90s.

00:44:25.900 –> 00:44:26.740
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:44:26.740 –> 00:44:27.000
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:44:27.000 –> 00:44:45.040
AMANI ROBERTS: See, from the 90s, that’s 20, 30 years ago, when you start growing and curing that email list, it’s very valuable because if you have, let’s say your email list is 10,000 people, but you have a 50 or 60% open rate, that’s 5,000 people, 6,000 people that are opening your email and seeing it.

00:44:45.040 –> 00:44:54.920
AMANI ROBERTS: Whereas if you have 20,000 followers on Instagram and 3% of the people are opening it, that’s what, 600 people?

00:44:54.920 –> 00:44:59.940
AMANI ROBERTS: So it’s just the ratio is very off, so it’s so important.

00:45:01.640 –> 00:45:02.420
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, it is.

00:45:02.420 –> 00:45:03.200
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s funny.

00:45:03.200 –> 00:45:09.520
AMANI ROBERTS: I’m just going to ask you that question about conversion, one versus the other, but that paints a good picture.

00:45:09.520 –> 00:45:10.000
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:45:10.000 –> 00:45:27.620
AMANI ROBERTS: Usually, if you can do a good email consistently, you get 30-40% open rate, sometimes 50, and you just grow and curate your email list from there and offer value, and your superfans, they will want to follow and support you.

00:45:27.620 –> 00:45:39.700
AMANI ROBERTS: I mean, it’s the whole Kevin Kelly 1000 true fans theory that if you can get 1000 superfans to spend $100 on you a year, that’s $100,000 in revenue, and then you build from there.

00:45:39.700 –> 00:45:47.240
AMANI ROBERTS: And so that’s primarily, you’re going to achieve that through having a strong email list, a newsletter, whatever, and just sharing what’s going on.

00:45:48.520 –> 00:45:49.760
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:45:50.700 –> 00:45:55.640
AMANI ROBERTS: How large do you think an email list needs to be to become meaningful?

00:45:55.640 –> 00:46:09.860
AMANI ROBERTS: And I know, like, open rate, engagement, consistency can make a big difference, but what do you think a reasonable target is for people that are either maybe in those early stages or they’re just, you know, they’re wondering?

00:46:09.860 –> 00:46:20.520
AMANI ROBERTS: I’d say, and I’m being serious, if you can get 50, then you go from 50 to 100, then 100 to 200, then you go 200 to 400, so you’re kind of doubling along the way.

00:46:20.520 –> 00:46:21.620
AMANI ROBERTS: I think it’s very valuable.

00:46:21.620 –> 00:46:44.500
AMANI ROBERTS: Another thing is that that’s why I go back to the website and get the domain name, because in addition to collecting email addresses on your tour and your performances, if you’re able to create a very attractive or fun lead magnet, so, for example, a lot of my artists that I work with, I love for them to have acoustic versions of some of their most popular songs, so their most popular song to have a band behind them or a track.

00:46:45.040 –> 00:46:55.160
AMANI ROBERTS: But if you also have an acoustic version, as a reward for someone giving you their email address, you say, okay, as a thank you, I’m going to send you this acoustic version of the song, thanks for joining my list.

00:46:55.160 –> 00:46:58.580
AMANI ROBERTS: And so if you can do, so then that’s one lead magnet you have.

00:46:58.580 –> 00:47:17.340
AMANI ROBERTS: And then maybe as you get to be more successful or you get more content, you can do a second lead magnet, like for you for sending me your email and cell phone, I’ll give you this exclusive kind of a single cover, or some artwork, people love artwork, exclusive things.

00:47:17.340 –> 00:47:32.000
AMANI ROBERTS: So if you can set up your email campaign or just your website where you have different places to collect people’s email addresses and cell phone numbers, but you give them something in return that’s very exclusive and rare, first of all, it builds loyalty.

00:47:32.000 –> 00:47:34.240
AMANI ROBERTS: And second, you’ll grow your email list even quicker.

00:47:34.240 –> 00:47:38.300
AMANI ROBERTS: And then on top of that, you know, I geek out when it comes to this.

00:47:38.300 –> 00:47:51.980
AMANI ROBERTS: If you’re, if you’re able, I guess I’m sure you could tell, if then if you take some of your earnings and you can do just a little touch of ads to your lead magnets, you’re driving people to the lead magnet to sign their email addresses, you’ll continue to grow.

00:47:51.980 –> 00:47:54.400
AMANI ROBERTS: So there’s these little things here and there.

00:47:54.400 –> 00:47:55.280
AMANI ROBERTS: And you do that.

00:47:55.280 –> 00:47:59.340
AMANI ROBERTS: And then we can talk about like your direct artists to fan platforms like a Patreon.

00:47:59.340 –> 00:48:05.280
AMANI ROBERTS: So you add all these elements to it, you’re performing, you’re collecting email addresses, and you’re just growing your audience quickly.

00:48:05.380 –> 00:48:14.900
AMANI ROBERTS: Because now, when it comes to like applying and getting accepted at festivals, they’re asking for your social media followings, but now some of them are saying, well, how large is your email list?

00:48:14.900 –> 00:48:22.760
AMANI ROBERTS: Because they know if you get accepted at this festival, you’re going to message everyone else, well, they’re going to come to see you the artist, but they might stay for other artists too.

00:48:22.760 –> 00:48:27.820
AMANI ROBERTS: So it’s like just getting people into your ecosystem is very important.

00:48:27.820 –> 00:48:28.940
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s right.

00:48:28.940 –> 00:48:29.460
AMANI ROBERTS: I love that.

00:48:29.460 –> 00:48:30.280
AMANI ROBERTS: Okay.

00:48:30.280 –> 00:48:40.040
AMANI ROBERTS: What are the specific tactics or systems that you use to confer or people should think about using to convert social media followers to email subscribers?

00:48:40.360 –> 00:48:41.200
AMANI ROBERTS: Same thing.

00:48:41.200 –> 00:48:46.140
AMANI ROBERTS: Try to drive them from your social media followings to your email list.

00:48:46.140 –> 00:48:47.880
AMANI ROBERTS: Now, you can do a lead magnet.

00:48:47.880 –> 00:48:50.920
AMANI ROBERTS: For me personally, for my book launch, I did a quiz.

00:48:50.920 –> 00:48:51.780
AMANI ROBERTS: Quizzes are very popular.

00:48:51.780 –> 00:48:53.100
AMANI ROBERTS: People love quizzes.

00:48:53.100 –> 00:49:00.700
AMANI ROBERTS: So maybe you can do a quiz about your favorite artist or something about you specifically.

00:49:02.160 –> 00:49:11.320
AMANI ROBERTS: Have maybe contests that you could do where you collect email addresses, but you want to drive them from your social media platforms to your email list.

00:49:11.320 –> 00:49:14.460
AMANI ROBERTS: A lot of times if they follow you on Instagram, you can use some services.

00:49:14.460 –> 00:49:29.120
AMANI ROBERTS: I think it’s like MiniChat where if they put like, say they put a star in the chat, you can then send them an email or collect their email address and use MiniChat or other services to get them from the social media to your website and to your email list.

00:49:30.940 –> 00:49:32.560
AMANI ROBERTS: What is MiniChat?

00:49:32.560 –> 00:49:48.840
AMANI ROBERTS: MiniChat is a service where, and there are other services that do it now too, but I first heard about MiniChat where a lot of times you’ll see musicians say, comment with star in the chat if you want to get my exclusive offer for a piece of merch or a discount code for my upcoming concert.

00:49:48.840 –> 00:50:05.240
AMANI ROBERTS: So you comment star in the chat on Instagram, MiniChat is already integrated, so then it’ll automatically send them a DM on social media that says okay, to get this special code for a discount on my next show, give me your email address.

00:50:05.240 –> 00:50:09.720
AMANI ROBERTS: And then you get the person’s email address, you send them the discount code and you add them to your email list.

00:50:09.720 –> 00:50:10.880
AMANI ROBERTS: Simple as that.

00:50:10.880 –> 00:50:18.680
AMANI ROBERTS: So you’re creating different calls to action on people’s social media accounts that will then get their email addresses into your system and that’s the goal.

00:50:18.680 –> 00:50:20.140
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s pretty cool.

00:50:20.140 –> 00:50:23.580
AMANI ROBERTS: Do you recall what that service costs?

00:50:23.580 –> 00:50:24.020
AMANI ROBERTS: Let’s see here.

00:50:24.020 –> 00:50:24.860
AMANI ROBERTS: Let’s look at pricing.

00:50:24.980 –> 00:50:25.240
AMANI ROBERTS: Hold on.

00:50:25.240 –> 00:50:26.580
AMANI ROBERTS: I see a little pricing thing here.

00:50:26.580 –> 00:50:27.660
AMANI ROBERTS: Let’s see.

00:50:27.660 –> 00:50:29.720
AMANI ROBERTS: You can start off with…

00:50:29.720 –> 00:50:33.580
AMANI ROBERTS: They have two levels, Pro, Elite and Free.

00:50:33.580 –> 00:50:35.180
AMANI ROBERTS: And it scales.

00:50:35.180 –> 00:50:38.220
AMANI ROBERTS: It starts to become more as you have more contacts.

00:50:38.220 –> 00:50:39.640
AMANI ROBERTS: And there’s a custom level too.

00:50:39.640 –> 00:50:46.780
AMANI ROBERTS: So you can start with Free and that gives you many basic features to engage with up to a thousand contacts free of charge.

00:50:46.780 –> 00:50:47.780
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s not bad.

00:50:47.780 –> 00:50:48.020
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:50:48.020 –> 00:50:52.300
AMANI ROBERTS: So you can start with Free and work your way up because it’ll pay for itself eventually.

00:50:52.300 –> 00:50:52.620
AMANI ROBERTS: Cool.

00:50:52.620 –> 00:50:52.940
AMANI ROBERTS: Okay.

00:50:52.940 –> 00:50:53.500
AMANI ROBERTS: Freemium model.

00:50:53.500 –> 00:50:54.000
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s good to know.

00:50:54.820 –> 00:50:56.220
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, I hadn’t heard of that.

00:50:56.720 –> 00:50:57.660
AMANI ROBERTS: I’m in a group.

00:50:57.660 –> 00:50:59.360
AMANI ROBERTS: I need to stay more plugged in with them.

00:50:59.360 –> 00:51:07.760
AMANI ROBERTS: Like, I don’t know if this is still possible, but the founder of this group called Music Marketing Method, her name’s Lins Creighton, the songwriter out of the UK.

00:51:07.760 –> 00:51:17.940
AMANI ROBERTS: She, her strategy began on Twitter some years ago, and she developed over the course of a few years, a ginormous following.

00:51:17.940 –> 00:51:26.160
AMANI ROBERTS: And so one of the things that she found was using DMs to engage with, you know, followers that show some promise for this kind of thing.

00:51:26.160 –> 00:51:38.860
AMANI ROBERTS: And she would just engage with them, have some, you know, genuine relationship, building conversation, and then quickly offer them, if they were interested in her music, check out, you know, a free download or this incentive or other.

00:51:38.860 –> 00:51:42.340
AMANI ROBERTS: I’m curious, you know, if that’s still as easy.

00:51:42.340 –> 00:51:46.960
AMANI ROBERTS: Well, I know it wasn’t easy for her, but it’s still as viable a strategy as it was.

00:51:46.960 –> 00:51:52.180
AMANI ROBERTS: And maybe with services like MiniChat, that it’s sort of moved on, but yeah, that’s cool to know.

00:51:52.180 –> 00:51:59.460
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, I think it’s just added to your, like your tool belt, you know, and just set it, forget about it and see what happens.

00:51:59.460 –> 00:52:02.920
AMANI ROBERTS: But it’s definitely a part of your strategy that should be there.

00:52:02.920 –> 00:52:08.660
AMANI ROBERTS: How often do you think independent artists should email their lists and what kind of content do you think performs best?

00:52:08.660 –> 00:52:09.740
AMANI ROBERTS: Good question.

00:52:09.740 –> 00:52:10.640
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s the base.

00:52:10.640 –> 00:52:13.000
AMANI ROBERTS: I personally email my people once a month.

00:52:13.000 –> 00:52:14.940
AMANI ROBERTS: I need to get it to twice a month.

00:52:14.940 –> 00:52:16.240
AMANI ROBERTS: Some people think weekly.

00:52:16.640 –> 00:52:19.020
AMANI ROBERTS: I think that could be a little bit too much.

00:52:19.020 –> 00:52:21.960
AMANI ROBERTS: So I’m of the feeling like twice a month is good.

00:52:21.960 –> 00:52:26.340
AMANI ROBERTS: And then you can add in random ones when there’s like a special release or things like that.

00:52:26.340 –> 00:52:30.380
AMANI ROBERTS: So I do think I want to work to getting towards once a week.

00:52:30.380 –> 00:52:31.340
AMANI ROBERTS: I think that’s good.

00:52:31.340 –> 00:52:32.820
AMANI ROBERTS: And then you can see.

00:52:32.820 –> 00:52:40.620
AMANI ROBERTS: So I would say two plus one, which means twice a month plus one kind of random email throughout the month for any special releases or announcements.

00:52:40.620 –> 00:52:42.400
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s a good strategy, I think.

00:52:42.980 –> 00:52:45.100
AMANI ROBERTS: I don’t want to overwhelm people either.

00:52:45.100 –> 00:52:47.300
AMANI ROBERTS: Are there specific types of content they should think about?

00:52:47.300 –> 00:52:51.500
AMANI ROBERTS: Or if they’re like kind of scratching their head when they do email their list?

00:52:51.500 –> 00:53:00.840
AMANI ROBERTS: Email them if you have like a new lyric video out, if you have a new concert that’s been secured, if you’ve gotten an award, if you have a new single that’s out.

00:53:00.840 –> 00:53:02.540
AMANI ROBERTS: Anything new.

00:53:02.540 –> 00:53:10.720
AMANI ROBERTS: Or you’re celebrating a one, two, four, five year anniversary like two years ago, I released this song, help me celebrate this, that can be good too.

00:53:10.720 –> 00:53:13.700
AMANI ROBERTS: So anything new and then celebrate some anniversaries.

00:53:13.700 –> 00:53:14.220
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s good.

00:53:14.220 –> 00:53:15.360
AMANI ROBERTS: I like that.

00:53:15.360 –> 00:53:16.560
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:53:16.560 –> 00:53:17.760
AMANI ROBERTS: Let’s talk about book publishing.

00:53:17.760 –> 00:53:19.920
AMANI ROBERTS: We’ll go back to that.

00:53:19.920 –> 00:53:20.980
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes.

00:53:21.620 –> 00:53:28.680
AMANI ROBERTS: How does or how can book publishing create revenue opportunities beyond book sales for musicians and artists?

00:53:28.680 –> 00:53:35.900
AMANI ROBERTS: For musicians, if you have a published book, I feel it can help you increase your fee.

00:53:35.900 –> 00:53:37.400
AMANI ROBERTS: Like it can help you increase your fee.

00:53:37.400 –> 00:53:39.180
AMANI ROBERTS: It adds to your credibility.

00:53:39.360 –> 00:53:41.880
AMANI ROBERTS: You have like a published author and a singer.

00:53:41.880 –> 00:53:45.280
AMANI ROBERTS: I just think it opens yourself up to additional fees.

00:53:45.280 –> 00:53:47.960
AMANI ROBERTS: It can also help you to go back to the conferences.

00:53:47.960 –> 00:53:52.780
AMANI ROBERTS: You can also do book events at conferences and then perform.

00:53:52.780 –> 00:53:57.480
AMANI ROBERTS: I think that will add even more to your marketability for corporate events.

00:53:58.340 –> 00:54:14.320
AMANI ROBERTS: I think most musicians, in addition to performing and touring, they do music lessons, they have a music studio they might manage, they have something that’s like some sort of service they offer to kind of facilitate incremental revenue.

00:54:14.320 –> 00:54:17.260
AMANI ROBERTS: If you have that, you can get more clients through your book.

00:54:17.260 –> 00:54:19.100
AMANI ROBERTS: You can also increase those fees.

00:54:19.100 –> 00:54:23.920
AMANI ROBERTS: So I think book launches for musicians is a very very niche.

00:54:23.920 –> 00:54:26.780
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s not talked about a lot, but I think it offers great opportunity.

00:54:26.880 –> 00:54:32.840
AMANI ROBERTS: You can also, if you have a Patreon, you can also offer the book for a certain level of your Patreon.

00:54:32.840 –> 00:54:40.700
AMANI ROBERTS: So if you have three levels, say you have like a Basic at $5 a month, Intermediate at $20 a month, and then you have like $100 a month for your top people.

00:54:40.700 –> 00:54:49.920
AMANI ROBERTS: Well if you sign up for my top level of Patreon, I’m going to send you a mailed copy of my book with a signature and a note.

00:54:49.920 –> 00:54:52.000
AMANI ROBERTS: And I think that just will help increase your overall revenues.

00:54:52.000 –> 00:54:53.640
AMANI ROBERTS: Just different ways to think about it.

00:54:54.200 –> 00:55:00.420
AMANI ROBERTS: I also think just publishing a book just makes artists more well-rounded.

00:55:00.420 –> 00:55:10.460
AMANI ROBERTS: It just kind of creates more revenue streams and just brings people into your ecosystem that might not have found you through your touring and your music.

00:55:10.480 –> 00:55:16.800
AMANI ROBERTS: So I’ve read these two books and I just think that if you can finish it and complete it, it can offer just some amazing opportunity.

00:55:16.800 –> 00:55:22.220
AMANI ROBERTS: Even speaking, you can go and talk to different audiences about your book and then people are like, Oh, I want to learn more.

00:55:22.220 –> 00:55:22.900
AMANI ROBERTS: Can we hire you?

00:55:22.900 –> 00:55:25.420
AMANI ROBERTS: It just opens up a whole new world.

00:55:25.420 –> 00:55:26.160
AMANI ROBERTS: Right.

00:55:26.160 –> 00:55:31.100
AMANI ROBERTS: What type of book do you think makes the most sense for independent musicians to write?

00:55:31.100 –> 00:55:34.320
AMANI ROBERTS: I guess instructional could be one.

00:55:34.320 –> 00:55:38.660
AMANI ROBERTS: I don’t know if memoirs really fall in there, but are there other areas that you like?

00:55:38.660 –> 00:55:40.560
AMANI ROBERTS: Instructional are good.

00:55:40.560 –> 00:55:42.620
AMANI ROBERTS: I think memoirs are also very good.

00:55:43.100 –> 00:55:59.660
AMANI ROBERTS: I think when you look at the state of the music industry, when you have someone that does a memoir, particularly if they are addressing and talking about how they were able to maintain their mental health through their artist’s journey, that could be very valuable because you and I know that that’s a huge issue within the music industry.

00:55:59.660 –> 00:56:10.080
AMANI ROBERTS: So if someone is telling their story about how they were able to consistently hear no as they were trying to grow their career, but then they had some breakthroughs and how they were able to manage their mentals through the breakthrough, I think that’s valuable.

00:56:10.680 –> 00:56:24.960
AMANI ROBERTS: I also think maybe, we mentioned instructional just how to grow your career, how to tour, those are some of the topics and subjects of books that I think artists can also release.

00:56:24.960 –> 00:56:28.340
AMANI ROBERTS: Also, take it back to the basics, a book of poems.

00:56:28.340 –> 00:56:36.460
AMANI ROBERTS: Most artists and singers are poets and they’re just singing their lyrics, and I think a book of poems could also be very valuable, especially ones that didn’t end up in a song.

00:56:36.460 –> 00:56:38.040
AMANI ROBERTS: I think that could be very attractive.

00:56:38.980 –> 00:56:53.000
AMANI ROBERTS: I had a guest very recently who’s been on the podcast before, and as soon as he saw my order, he goes, dude, well, I would have given that to you, but I wanted to hear Preview’s music before we talked, and it was kind of last minute, so I just ordered it.

00:56:53.000 –> 00:56:56.500
AMANI ROBERTS: But I ordered it because it came with the book of poems.

00:56:56.500 –> 00:56:57.600
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:56:57.600 –> 00:57:06.900
AMANI ROBERTS: So I don’t have yet because I’m in Mexico, but I had it sent to a family member in Texas, so I’ll get to see that when I’m in a deep guy.

00:57:06.900 –> 00:57:21.380
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s like low-hanging fruit for artists, particularly singers, like so many lyrics never make it to the vinyl or to the MP3, that they could probably have a very, very immersive and engaging book of poems that people would love.

00:57:21.380 –> 00:57:23.260
AMANI ROBERTS: What do you think about two that I want to mention?

00:57:23.260 –> 00:57:35.180
AMANI ROBERTS: So on the instructional, I assume that for those that are inclined to do it, to be teachers, that if they want, publishing their own student guide is good, or maybe just a guide for self-instruction.

00:57:35.180 –> 00:57:36.740
AMANI ROBERTS: I don’t know how popular those are.

00:57:36.740 –> 00:57:45.360
AMANI ROBERTS: But the other one too is maybe a book of their art, if they’re into a visual media that translates into some cool book where people can enjoy it.

00:57:45.360 –> 00:57:48.820
AMANI ROBERTS: Maybe it’s a big project, maybe like a coffee table book or just something.

00:57:48.880 –> 00:57:52.520
AMANI ROBERTS: It doesn’t have to be that, but there are all these different formats out now.

00:57:52.520 –> 00:57:54.040
AMANI ROBERTS: What do you think of those?

00:57:54.040 –> 00:57:54.400
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

00:57:54.400 –> 00:58:13.460
AMANI ROBERTS: I think the artwork book, that sounds particularly attractive to me because if say you have an artist and they have an artwork book, but then you compare each piece of art to one of their songs that they have written or a song they love that’s by another artist, and you just create even more immersive experience.

00:58:13.460 –> 00:58:15.400
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s a pretty cool idea there.

00:58:15.400 –> 00:58:20.880
AMANI ROBERTS: Also, I always recommend my artists and musicians to record the audio book themselves.

00:58:20.880 –> 00:58:26.620
AMANI ROBERTS: Make sure they have an audio book component, and that’s where a workbook can also come into fact we have the audio book plus a workbook.

00:58:27.700 –> 00:58:31.460
AMANI ROBERTS: And then instructional books, like people want to learn.

00:58:31.460 –> 00:58:39.980
AMANI ROBERTS: Many people want to learn, so if you have a quick and simple book about how you learn how to play guitar or how you write your music, how you write your lyrics, that works.

00:58:39.980 –> 00:58:40.620
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah indeed.

00:58:40.620 –> 00:58:41.920
AMANI ROBERTS: Okay cool.

00:58:43.180 –> 00:58:51.540
AMANI ROBERTS: What do you think common mistakes are among musicians when they approach the whole book publishing ideas as a business strategy?

00:58:53.180 –> 00:58:56.780
AMANI ROBERTS: They think that they’re going to make a lot of money off the book themselves.

00:58:56.780 –> 00:58:59.060
AMANI ROBERTS: Like it’s hard to make money off of a book.

00:58:59.060 –> 00:59:01.720
AMANI ROBERTS: Even if you’re a best-selling author, it’s hard to make money off a book.

00:59:01.720 –> 00:59:08.780
AMANI ROBERTS: Now you could be on the New York Times best-selling list and that would help, but I really think they shouldn’t view it for the book sales.

00:59:08.780 –> 00:59:20.260
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s very different from record sales, but you can use this book as a launching point to get sponsorships, to appear on TV, just to appear at different conferences.

00:59:20.340 –> 00:59:24.140
AMANI ROBERTS: So it’s like marketing, it’s like kind of paid marketing.

00:59:24.140 –> 00:59:29.960
AMANI ROBERTS: So I think that’s the mistake is I think they’re going to get rich off of making a best-selling book when it’s just another product in their ecosystem.

00:59:29.960 –> 00:59:32.220
AMANI ROBERTS: Now you will make some money off of it, that’s true.

00:59:32.220 –> 00:59:37.900
AMANI ROBERTS: And if your book is good and you continue to get promotion, you can make some consistent revenue stream that eventually pay for the book.

00:59:37.900 –> 00:59:40.660
AMANI ROBERTS: So don’t discount that, but just don’t expect it.

00:59:40.660 –> 00:59:41.140
AMANI ROBERTS: Right.

00:59:41.140 –> 00:59:46.100
AMANI ROBERTS: When you’re educating artists on strategies, what’s the biggest resistance or obstacle you encounter?

00:59:46.860 –> 00:59:50.580
AMANI ROBERTS: I would say like starting something new.

00:59:50.580 –> 00:59:59.440
AMANI ROBERTS: Whether it’s a Patreon, whether it’s an email newsletter, those are the two common ones that people are just so unsure because they’re used to doing things their own way.

00:59:59.440 –> 01:00:02.700
AMANI ROBERTS: And so it’s just having to prove to them the value of that.

01:00:02.700 –> 01:00:08.280
AMANI ROBERTS: And I think that’s probably the top two things that I get the most resistance for.

01:00:08.280 –> 01:00:09.680
AMANI ROBERTS: Comfort zone issue.

01:00:09.680 –> 01:00:10.200
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes.

01:00:10.200 –> 01:00:13.660
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes, we love to be comfortable, but being uncomfortable is where the growth is.

01:00:15.540 –> 01:00:32.260
AMANI ROBERTS: If an independent artist was going to focus on one of your four main areas, missing royalties, private events, email marketing, or book publishing, in the next 90 days, which one do you think could have the fastest impact and why?

01:00:32.260 –> 01:00:44.640
AMANI ROBERTS: I would say it kind of goes along with email marketing, but I would say start a direct fan to artist platform where you can monetize your music, whether it be with a service like Patreon or Even.

01:00:44.640 –> 01:00:49.040
AMANI ROBERTS: And then 1B would be to create a lead magnet to grow your email list.

01:00:49.040 –> 01:00:50.440
AMANI ROBERTS: Those are the top two off the bat.

01:00:50.440 –> 01:00:51.860
AMANI ROBERTS: We should start right away.

01:00:51.860 –> 01:01:03.220
AMANI ROBERTS: What’s the minimum time investment to properly implement the two that you just mentioned, for instance, while still maintaining an active performing and recording schedule or whatever they’re doing?

01:01:03.220 –> 01:01:07.160
AMANI ROBERTS: I like to have my artists give me at least six months.

01:01:07.160 –> 01:01:12.680
AMANI ROBERTS: I’d say three to six months, but preferably six months, which would allow me to do pretty much two or three of those.

01:01:12.680 –> 01:01:20.980
AMANI ROBERTS: It will allow us to get all your music in order with the metadata, get sure your publishing is in order.

01:01:20.980 –> 01:01:22.960
AMANI ROBERTS: Songtrust, MLC, that takes a while.

01:01:22.960 –> 01:01:24.620
AMANI ROBERTS: That can take up to three months.

01:01:24.620 –> 01:01:29.140
AMANI ROBERTS: But at the same time, while that’s working in the background, we’re going to start your Fenn Artist Platform.

01:01:29.140 –> 01:01:32.020
AMANI ROBERTS: We’re going to start your Lead Manage to collect your email addresses.

01:01:32.020 –> 01:01:50.000
AMANI ROBERTS: Once we get to that point, then we can decide, are you wanting to get your music into festivals, to play at festivals, or, which we haven’t talked about, do you want to start to focus on sync licensing and getting your music placed into movies, TV shows, video games, or films?

01:01:50.000 –> 01:01:53.080
AMANI ROBERTS: But it’s six months to get that train rolling.

01:01:53.080 –> 01:01:57.620
AMANI ROBERTS: The first three is to organizing, get everything organized and teaching you the process.

01:01:57.620 –> 01:02:10.120
AMANI ROBERTS: Then months two to five is like, we’ve really got things working and we’re making pitches and we’re starting your Patreon, updating it, growing your audience, and so I think six months is a good time period.

01:02:11.140 –> 01:02:12.400
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s good.

01:02:12.400 –> 01:02:12.680
AMANI ROBERTS: All right.

01:02:12.700 –> 01:02:14.100
AMANI ROBERTS: We’ll use this one as a closer here.

01:02:14.820 –> 01:02:21.040
AMANI ROBERTS: What percentage of revenue should a sustainable, independent music career come from?

01:02:21.040 –> 01:02:25.200
AMANI ROBERTS: Performance versus like other streams that you teach about?

01:02:25.200 –> 01:02:35.120
AMANI ROBERTS: I would say for performance, 30% performance, 30-35% from your direct fan to artist platform.

01:02:35.120 –> 01:02:39.160
AMANI ROBERTS: Then I would say maybe 10% from streaming.

01:02:39.160 –> 01:02:41.940
AMANI ROBERTS: Then the other, I think I have 15% left, right?

01:02:41.940 –> 01:02:43.520
AMANI ROBERTS: 30-35.

01:02:43.520 –> 01:02:49.860
AMANI ROBERTS: Another 20% from like merch, another miscellaneous revenue.

01:02:49.920 –> 01:02:56.920
AMANI ROBERTS: And then, well, no, we’ll say 10% from merch on the revenue, and then the final 15% will be from private events.

01:02:56.920 –> 01:03:01.320
AMANI ROBERTS: And I would say the ones that could grow the most will be private event revenue.

01:03:01.320 –> 01:03:06.160
AMANI ROBERTS: And then we haven’t even talked about long-term synchronization revenue, which is like a wild card.

01:03:06.160 –> 01:03:08.640
AMANI ROBERTS: But I would think that would be the breakdown right there.

01:03:08.640 –> 01:03:17.160
AMANI ROBERTS: I would think the direct fan to artist platform and the, and private events, those are the two that can grow in a shorter period of time.

01:03:17.620 –> 01:03:18.760
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s good to know.

01:03:18.760 –> 01:03:30.300
AMANI ROBERTS: And do you, for people who are curious about your work, do you spend a good amount of time on sync and is it sort of artist and goal-dependent or is it just kind of part of what you do?

01:03:30.540 –> 01:03:31.780
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s artist and goal-dependent.

01:03:31.780 –> 01:03:38.480
AMANI ROBERTS: I always educate people on sync because some people don’t understand just, it’s not just seeing your, seeing your song in a movie.

01:03:38.480 –> 01:03:43.340
AMANI ROBERTS: It could be a small commercial on local TV that can give you $1,000, $2,000.

01:03:43.340 –> 01:03:46.180
AMANI ROBERTS: You can be part of a video game which can give you $5,000 or $6,000.

01:03:46.820 –> 01:03:51.140
AMANI ROBERTS: So I always, always share just the concept of sync and how it can happen.

01:03:51.140 –> 01:03:54.940
AMANI ROBERTS: It is a more longer term revenue stream or fountain.

01:03:54.940 –> 01:03:57.820
AMANI ROBERTS: It takes a long time to get in there, but once you get in there, it couldn’t work.

01:03:57.820 –> 01:04:02.580
AMANI ROBERTS: So I always will educate people on that, but I will try to share with people that that’s kind of the long game there.

01:04:02.580 –> 01:04:03.680
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s not going to be short term.

01:04:03.680 –> 01:04:04.500
AMANI ROBERTS: Right.

01:04:04.500 –> 01:04:05.300
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, that’s good.

01:04:05.300 –> 01:04:05.600
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

01:04:05.600 –> 01:04:06.900
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s good.

01:04:06.940 –> 01:04:08.880
AMANI ROBERTS: Well, hey, man, thanks.

01:04:08.880 –> 01:04:10.760
AMANI ROBERTS: First of all, thanks for making time to chat with me today.

01:04:10.760 –> 01:04:23.460
AMANI ROBERTS: And I want to let listeners know, lest I forget in the intro that I’ll record later, that they can connect with you, find out about all your work, and they can even find all your socials at amaniexperience.com.

01:04:23.460 –> 01:04:25.100
AMANI ROBERTS: Did I get that right?

01:04:25.100 –> 01:04:25.360
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes.

01:04:25.360 –> 01:04:26.020
AMANI ROBERTS: Yes, that’s right.

01:04:26.020 –> 01:04:29.040
AMANI ROBERTS: They can go to amaniexperience.com, backslash call.

01:04:29.040 –> 01:04:33.840
AMANI ROBERTS: I have a free call with anyone who’s out there, a musician that wants to figure out how to better monetize their music.

01:04:34.420 –> 01:04:44.380
AMANI ROBERTS: And I have something new where if there’s anyone out there that wants weekly updates twice a week on like music business news, they can text the word news to 301-638-8749.

01:04:47.220 –> 01:04:52.780
AMANI ROBERTS: And I send out text messages twice a week with just the latest four or five things that are going on in the music business world.

01:04:52.780 –> 01:04:54.440
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s pretty cool.

01:04:54.440 –> 01:04:54.980
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah.

01:04:54.980 –> 01:04:56.880
AMANI ROBERTS: Now, that’s a $5 subscription.

01:04:56.880 –> 01:04:58.960
AMANI ROBERTS: You get your first two weeks for free.

01:04:58.960 –> 01:05:00.160
AMANI ROBERTS: But I mean, you stay educated.

01:05:00.160 –> 01:05:00.960
AMANI ROBERTS: That’s half the battle.

01:05:00.960 –> 01:05:01.860
AMANI ROBERTS: Yeah, totally.

01:05:01.860 –> 01:05:02.660
AMANI ROBERTS: Good talking with you, Benny.

01:05:03.060 –> 01:05:03.900
AMANI ROBERTS: Thank you very much for having me.

01:05:03.900 –> 01:05:04.980
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s been a great conversation.

01:05:04.980 –> 01:05:07.140
AMANI ROBERTS: Can’t wait to come back.

01:05:07.140 –> 01:05:10.040
AMANI ROBERTS: As an independent podcaster, your support means the world to me.

01:05:10.040 –> 01:05:12.100
AMANI ROBERTS: You could even say I depend on it.

01:05:12.100 –> 01:05:14.920
AMANI ROBERTS: With that in mind, here are some things you can do to help support us.

01:05:14.920 –> 01:05:17.640
AMANI ROBERTS: Follow us on your favorite podcast app.

01:05:17.640 –> 01:05:20.020
AMANI ROBERTS: Leave us a review on your favorite podcast app.

01:05:20.020 –> 01:05:26.600
AMANI ROBERTS: Or shoot me a review by email, robonzo at unstarvingmusician.com, that I can use on the website.

01:05:26.600 –> 01:05:28.940
AMANI ROBERTS: Or just share this episode with a friend.

01:05:28.940 –> 01:05:31.180
AMANI ROBERTS: This makes a huge impact on our audience growth.

01:05:32.220 –> 01:05:43.940
AMANI ROBERTS: You could also visit our crowd sponsor page at unstarvingmusician.com/crowdsponsor to learn of the many other ways of supporting the podcast, including a quick and easy online tip jar.

01:05:43.940 –> 01:05:48.520
AMANI ROBERTS: It’s like click, tip, done, easy and super appreciated.

01:05:48.520 –> 01:05:59.480
AMANI ROBERTS: You’ll find many ways of showing your support there, including through our affiliate partners like Banzugal, Kit, Email, formerly ConvertKit, Dreamhost, and others.

01:05:59.480 –> 01:06:03.780
AMANI ROBERTS: The music you’re hearing is New God’s Part 2, the instrumental mix by yours truly.

01:06:03.780 –> 01:06:08.640
AMANI ROBERTS: You can hear the full version downloaded or buy it at robonzo.com.

01:06:08.640 –> 01:06:18.840
AMANI ROBERTS: If all this was too much to remember or process, just go to the show notes for this episode at unstarvingmusician.com to find links to all the stuff talked about in this episode.

01:06:19.320 –> 01:06:23.400
AMANI ROBERTS: You can leave us feedback, questions, comments, complaints at unstarvingmusician.com/feedback.

01:06:25.920 –> 01:06:27.300
AMANI ROBERTS: Thanks for listening.

01:06:27.300 –> 01:06:29.480
AMANI ROBERTS: Peace, gratitude, and a whole lot of love.

01:06:35.400 –> 01:06:37.660
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